Off Topic Politics Thread

[Beef]

God help us if he or May is the next PM..

Or Osborne.... Corbyn even worries me.

 

[BobbyD]

It is factually incorrect. 30.6 million people voted in GE 2015. The peak for X Factor was around 15 million in 2011, and since then viewing figures have roughly halved.

You are correct 30.6m did vote in the GE, i've interpreted his message as votes for a particular candidate rather than everyone in the general election itself. I guess you could argue that he's not factually correct but i think he's just laying a background to our general apathy. Not sure how this is relating to an in or out argument except maybe the questioning of his credibility which you should be able to with what he is saying

 

[Beef]

Boris criticising Obama for saying the UK should stay in. (on the face of it, perfectly fine)

He's said that Obama's Kenyan heritage probably means he is anti-British which is why he's advising against leaving the EU.

Boris, there are many much better arguments to make than that one.

He's playing his role too well.

 

[Qwerty]

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[fatletiss]

I will counter that claim.

I only found figures for a few years. Last year was 10 million votes in the final, 2013 had ~15 million and 2010 had ~15 millon.

In the last GE the conservatives 11.3m people voted for the tories so it's pretty closely run. Not factually incorrect. He doesn't mention every year, but just about every year. Anyway i think the point was that people don't really care.

Votes = people????? I believe you can vote more than once for the X factor; sadly not for politics.

 

[fatletiss]

In the end, what most people care about is whether they will be richer or poorer, so whoever is the more persuasive on that will win the vote.

Or in my case, in a job.

 

[BobbyD]

It just doesn't seem like a great start to a 20 minute video, but not really too important.

The rest of it seems to be his opinion that the EU removes sovereignty and this is a bad thing. That's a completely reasonable argument, but nowhere near the top of most people's worries about the EU (immigration and cost, by the way). In fact, one of the highest polling reasons to remain is losing influence in the EU trade market.

big image - https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/13620/EUarguments01.png

In the end, what most people care about is whether they will be richer or poorer, so whoever is the more persuasive on that will win the vote.

Agreed, most people will look at how will i benefit and does this affect me. That will probably mean we will be staying in the EU.

I can't deny that in the short term staying in the EU will be financially beneficial, i just think long term the aims of the EU is to prevent the state nationalising any free enterprise so that once the tories do what they do in selling of our state assets (land registry is next followed possibly by NHS), there will be no means for us to re-nationalise.

Also i don't think it will be as bad as people make out for us financially, it won't be like the EU will just stop trading with us, it just means we have to pay more (so do they) for when we import/export our products to the EU

 

[BobbyD]

Votes = people????? I believe you can vote more than once for the X factor; sadly not for politics.

Possibly, i guess we won't know if people have voted how many times as you there are no statistics on this. Anyway irrelevant to the conversation

 

[fatletiss]

Possibly, i guess we won't know if people have voted how many times as you there are no statistics on this. Anyway irrelevant to the conversation

Oh ok...irrelevant eh? You asked someone to comment on your video. They commented. Then you said that bit didn't matter. Not really conducive to a good debate if you are only going to consider the bite you want to. Why don't you list those bits and then people can comment on that

 

[BobbyD]

It just doesn't seem like a great start to a 20 minute video, but not really too important.

The rest of it seems to be his opinion that the EU removes sovereignty and this is a bad thing. That's a completely reasonable argument, but nowhere near the top of most people's worries about the EU (immigration and cost, by the way). In fact, one of the highest polling reasons to remain is losing influence in the EU trade market.

big image - https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/13620/EUarguments01.png

In the end, what most people care about is whether they will be richer or poorer, so whoever is the more persuasive on that will win the vote.

With respect to influencing the EU trade market, all the regulations are pretty much directed by the EU council (i believe i might be wrong), we as a member of the EU just get to vote yes or no to the alongside the 28 other members. In terms of influencing these countries we have limited of that as well.

Just look at the whole Turkey migrant crisis, Angela Merkel has proposed a deal and that just goes through without any proper discussion with her EU partners (or at least thats the image i have been given). That's not even getting into the mess of what will happens a year or two down the line when some of the other EU countries might be in serious trouble economically seeing that Greece is still a mess with only problems down the line (maybe more privatisations).

 

[BobbyD]

Oh ok...irrelevant eh? You asked someone to comment on your video. They commented. Then you said that bit didn't matter. Not really conducive to a good debate if you are only going to consider the bite you want to. Why don't you list those bits and then people can comment on that

I meant, me and query have discussed this. Fair enough, i can concede mr youtuber whoever he is (i don't actually know) might have gone a bit hyperbole. If you look at purely votes (obviously multiple votes can happen but there is no evidence of this) can be given but from the years i looked at without having gone into more details can see that of the 3 years i checked, there have been more votes in X factor final than for whoever we voted into at the GE (the tories).

 

[fatletiss]

I meant, me and query have discussed this. Fair enough, i can concede mr youtuber whoever he is (i don't actually know) might have gone a bit hyperbole. If you look at purely votes (obviously multiple votes can happen but there is no evidence of this) can be given but from the years i looked at without having gone into more details can see that of the 3 years i checked, there have been more votes in X factor final than for whoever we voted into at the GE (the tories).

...but irrelevant without knowledge of how many people voted. I would say it is pretty commonly known that people vote multiple times for things like the x factor. Hardly a comparative count.

*not defending Tories, just making the point

 

[Beef]

Boris criticising Obama for saying the UK should stay in. (on the face of it, perfectly fine)

He's said that Obama's Kenyan heritage probably means he is anti-British which is why he's advising against leaving the EU.

Boris, there are many much better arguments to make than that one.

And right on cue Farage has gone a step further:

Look, I know his family’s background. Kenya. Colonialism. There is clearly something going on there. It’s just that you know people emerge from colonialism with different views of the Britsh. Some thought that they were really rather benign and rather good, and others saw them as foreign invaders. Obama’s family come from that second school of thought and it hasn’t quite left him yet.

 

[Archers Road]

Farage, Boris, Gove. I know politics should be about the issues and not the personalities, but that really is three excellent reasons for rejecting Brexit.

 

[Saint Helen]

Also, there's no age limit on X-Files voters. How many 17 year olds and under vote, I wonder... probably a few million.

 

[BobbyD]

And right on cue Farage has gone a step further:

Look, I know his family’s background. Kenya. Colonialism. There is clearly something going on there. It’s just that you know people emerge from colonialism with different views of the Britsh. Some thought that they were really rather benign and rather good, and others saw them as foreign invaders. Obama’s family come from that second school of thought and it hasn’t quite left him yet.

My issue with Obama is two fold:

I can't believe this guy has been warded peace prizes, this is the president that has overseen racial tensions as high as anything, overseen the US debt increasing from below 10 trillion dollars to now 20 trillion dollars and he's pretty much made a mess of ISIS (i guess i can't blame him for that, everyone is at fault).

Saying that i don't actually know too much about whats happened in the U.S. but maybe i had more hopes for him as i was ecstatic when he was first elected but it looks like it's ended up that he's just another president who has again kept with the establishment (republicans controlling everything probably hasn't helped)

 

[BobbyD]

Farage, Boris, Gove. I know politics should be about the issues and not the personalities, but that really is three excellent reasons for rejecting Brexit.

Could say the same for Mr I'm going to cut everyones disability benefits Osbourne and Cameron for the inners. The only person i can stand from government is probably corbyn and even he thinks we should stay in if we can influence (which we cannot as we don't elect the EU)

 

[Qwerty]

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[Beef]

And as someone noted earlier, every other party leader is on the same side (including the Democrats). Believe it or not Cameron and Osborne are quite popular outside the internet. That is persuasive to a lot of people.

Are you sure ?

The biggest thing that will get people to stay is the leave party have said jack ****.

 

[Beef]

Farage, Boris, Gove. I know politics should be about the issues and not the personalities, but that really is three excellent reasons for rejecting Brexit.

And again.
Teresa (what's privacy) May
Osborne
Cameron
Hunt

Both sides have awful people on it.