Off Topic Politics Thread

[BackFromBeyond]

I think that this kind of criminal violence is counter-productive to assisting the cause of Palestine. It is difficult to think just what was behind the motive to attempt to kill a security guard who probably knew little about the factory supplying gear to Israel and was probably on minimum wage. Sickening.

Corner was specifically acquitted of the charge of "causing grievous bodily harm with intent" against the police officer and convicted of inflicting grievous bodily harm without intent.

It's a complex and ultimately distressing case; the UK criminal justice system is being politically weaponised. Elbit Systems - the Israeli weapons factory at which they were arrested while vandalising drones - which have targeted and killed British aid workers (some of them former veterans). The UK government has run cover for the arms manufacturer, conspicuously - unlike Poland whose nationals were also killed - the UK Foreign Office has failed to back an investigation into the deaths.

"The UK government and arms industry is complicit in Israel's killing of seven aid workers in Gaza, including three British citizens. The workers were killed by a strike from a Hermes 450 drone manufactured by Elbit Systems. The Hermes 450 is powered by a UK-made R902(W) ****el engine, produced by Elbit subsidiary UAV Engines Limited in the UK."

CAAT - MEDIA RELEASE: The UK is complicit in Israel’s killing of UK aid workers in Gaza

Our government has failed us, and it has failed the Palestinian people, and it has failed its own citizens. It is down to us to take action.

caat.org.uk

At The Filton Six retrial, there was an unusual special mandate under which the context of what they were actually doing - that it was a weapons factory, where these weapons have been used, on whom, the death tolls involved, and the accused stated intention to prevent harm - was completely hidden from the jury. The accused's legal representation were prevented from explaining their clients moral or ethical motivations to the jury or make an appeal to equity at the sentencing stage of the trial

"In the context of sentencing (not overturning a conviction), a barrister can - and absolutely must - present moral motivations as mitigating factors" The Bar Standard Board.

A "terrorist connection" was also added to the convictions (the jury believed they were adjudicating a prosecution for criminal damage) in order to increase the terms and re-proscribe the group as "terrorists" only days later - at the conveniently timed - proscription rehearing at the Court of Appeal.

All very concerning.

 

[BackFromBeyond]

I really think PA crossed a line when members physically assaulted the guard and could have easily killed him. That could never be justified.

The action such as damaging the airolane or climbing on to the roofs of factories is something many peoole will have sneaking admiration for but there are other peotest groups who can get their message across without resulting to violence against someine who was innocent.

I hope the security guards sues them.

Members', plural?

What that one person did was a complete outlier, physical violence is not a stated aim or objective of the group - there have been no other instances of physical assault. Sentence that individual, not a group who hundreds of thousands of people support. Would somebody have a case to sue a football club for something violent one fan did?

It was bizarre (and ahistorical) to hear while proscribing Palestinian Action, the Judge's statement invoked the Suffragettes as now conveniently defanged state-approved happy-clappers of protest! (They operated convert arson and bombing campaigns - including detonating a bomb in Lloyd George's home)

"It is not, as it claims, a direct action civil disobedience protest group like the suffragettes operating transparently in the open. It is a covert organisation that operates using secret cells to avoid the detection and prosecution of those using violence to destroy the property of third parties. Palestine Action’s activities have caused [one] injury as well as property damage." Chief Justice, Sue Carr

 

[Ian Thumwood]

Nice to see that Farage was not even a close second in the by election.

No one appears to be commenting on the fact thst the Liberals and Tories have effectively lost support in England and are now irrelevent to our politics being replaced by the Greens and Reform respectively.

 

[StJabbo1]

See also the second table showing the swing from Reform to the Tories in local elections.

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[One of yer Norvern Saints]

See also the second table showing the swing from Reform to the Tories in local elections.

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Does all this mean I can come out from under the duvet and face the world again?

Odd that a dyed-in-the-wool old leftie can feel pleased with those Tory wins!

So come on then, Andy. Save the country. No pressure, mate!

 

[StJabbo1]

Does all this mean I can come out from under the duvet and face the world again?

Odd that a dyed-in-the-wool old leftie can feel pleased with those Tory wins!

So come on then, Andy. Save the country. No pressure, mate!

Thought much the same, time to take me Kaftan out of mothballs, grow a beard, slip into me sandals and read the Grauniad in public whilst stoking up me pipe.

 

[Archers Road]

Hopefully, if nothing else, Reform have now peaked.

Country still appears ungovernable.

 

[tomw24]

Clearly the best thing for the country would be for Burnham to launch, and win, a leadership challenge. Starmer is a lame duck and Labour desperately needs a new leader and fresh approach.

 

[Lemons and Oranges]

Hopefully, if nothing else, Reform have now peaked.

Country still appears ungovernable.

I'm expecting a military coup anytime now. No, hang on, that would involve people actually bothering to man the barricades, and I've made other plans this weekend.

 

[StJabbo1]

I'm expecting a military coup anytime now. No, hang on, that would involve people actually bothering to man the barricades, and I've made other plans this weekend.

Could be some riotous behaviour if Ingerland don't fullfil the promise shown in the second half vs Croatia.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

I'm expecting a military coup anytime now. No, hang on, that would involve people actually bothering to man the barricades, and I've made other plans this weekend.

Would depend on us having a military too...

 

[StJabbo1]

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Add the NHS and Billy Bragg to the list.

 

[Archers Road]

In all seriousness, Starmer is probably nearing the end of the line. His record stands up pretty well when all the hysteria dies down;

Nationalised the railways
Took much needed steps to strengthen regulators in energy, water etc
Got the NHS off life support
Landlords and Tenant Act
Leasehold Reform Act
Employees Rights Act
School Breakfast Clubs
Safe handling through international crises

Governing in slogans while playing to the gallery is easy; Starmer wasn’t very good at that. Actually governing is hard, and Starmer hasn’t done bad. At all.

 

[Gregm1988]

See also the second table showing the swing from Reform to the Tories in local elections.

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Lotus Eaters (right wing YouTube channel) are going to be fun. I’m intrigued by them as over time you and dip in and see their shift. I think they were mostly right wingers who were pro Brexit and Anti Woke. I think they were pro BoJo but turned on him and went all in on Farage.

They turned on Farage and went all in on Restore and Lowe very early and were very keen on the whole mass deportation and “cultural reclamation”.

Claimed attacks on Lowe were the best form of advertising, that they made Restore sound in line with most people in the country and that they didn’t expect anything less than 10% and that they had internal polls suggesting 20-25% and coming second. That Restore would be the end of Farage

To me it sounded like priming for a “vote must have been rigged” scenario. I’d love to know how they are going to explain this. That said the main guy did expect Burnham to win. But not with more than half the vote

They also said that if Reform didn’t win it wouldn’t be Restore’s fault but Reform for not being appealing enough - which is surprisingly level headed compared to some of what they say

I just wonder whether they will notice their echo chamber being smashed.

This of course probably isn’t that telling because of how unique the by-election was. But those on the right were trying to make it a big deal

 

[Gregm1988]

In all seriousness, Starmer is probably nearing the end of the line. His record stands up pretty well when all the hysteria dies down;

Nationalised the railways
Took much needed steps to strengthen regulators in energy, water etc
Got the NHS off life support
Landlords and Tenant Act
Leasehold Reform Act
Employees Rights Act
School Breakfast Clubs
Safe handling through international crises

I may be off base here but sort of like Biden. With the big issue for both that they left the door too open for populists from their right - either with certain policies or actions. In Biden’s case not cracking down harder to Jan 6 people and his attorney general not prosecuting Trump for it. In Starmer’s arguably - not going after the organisers of the Southport riots. I understand why neither did and in Starmer’s case don’t think at alone would have made enough of a difference

 

[Archers Road]

I may be off base here but sort of like Biden. With the big issue for both that they left the door too open for populists from their right - either with certain policies or actions. In Biden’s case not cracking down harder to Jan 6 people and his attorney general not prosecuting Trump for it. In Starmer’s arguably - not going after the organisers of the Southport riots. I understand why neither did and in Starmer’s case don’t think at alone would have made enough of a difference

Well I think the issue with Biden was that his Presidency came too late in his life. A younger Joe Biden would at the very least have been a safe pair of hands for his country.

What’s opened the door to the far right across the democratic world, is the exponential increase in wealth inequality. Same as the 1930s worryingly, with the difference being that there is now little in the way of a radical left alternative to balance things out. Unless count the Greens I suppose.

 

[Saints_Alive]

In all seriousness, Starmer is probably nearing the end of the line. His record stands up pretty well when all the hysteria dies down;

Nationalised the railways
Took much needed steps to strengthen regulators in energy, water etc
Got the NHS off life support
Landlords and Tenant Act
Leasehold Reform Act
Employees Rights Act
School Breakfast Clubs
Safe handling through international crises

Governing in slogans while playing to the gallery is easy; Starmer wasn’t very good at that. Actually governing is hard, and Starmer hasn’t done bad. At all.

He's just the latest Labour leader who has suffered a hatchet job from Murdoch's media but he should go for the good of the party.

 

[StJabbo1]

In all seriousness, Starmer is probably nearing the end of the line. His record stands up pretty well when all the hysteria dies down;

Nationalised the railways
Took much needed steps to strengthen regulators in energy, water etc
Got the NHS off life support
Landlords and Tenant Act
Leasehold Reform Act
Employees Rights Act
School Breakfast Clubs
Safe handling through international crises

Governing in slogans while playing to the gallery is easy; Starmer wasn’t very good at that. Actually governing is hard, and Starmer hasn’t done bad. At all.

Add:-
Removal of the child benefit cap taking 500,000 kids out of poverty.
Making trade with the EU easier.
Re-entering the Erasmus program.
Pissing off the tangerine turd and his administration of sycophantic incompetants.

 

[Puck]

It's so touching to see the usual suspects in this thread remaining loyal to Starmer. It brings a tear to the eye, it really does.

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[StJabbo1]

It's so touching to see the usual suspects in this thread remaining loyal to Starmer. It brings a tear to the eye, it really does.

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There's as many of those on this thread as there are wide mouthed frogs.