Off Topic Politics Thread

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thereisonlyoneno7 said:
I do agree that some of the issue is it is Trump doing it. I am trying to detach my dislike of the **** and thinking what if someone else did it?Would I be so annoyed. Maybe not.
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Genuinely I think this is a monumentally **** idea regardless of leader.

There are so many ways this can go wrong and the US and Israel clearly have no plan beyond trying to agitate the population into regime change from the air.

Its genuinely appears to be less thought through than Iraq.

Right now the IRGC are still in charge of the country and if they were willing to kill 30,000 people for protesting, think how many they will be willing to kill in the current circumstances.

The current rumour is that the US and Israel are trying to rally Kurdish opposition on the ground, that's the best they can come up with.

Then in purely terms of self interest, it is bad for our country. We were just beginning to show signs of economic recovery, now it could all go back down the toilet again.

So I think regardless of leader this would be worthy of an extreme amount of scorn and/or skepticism
 
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Shandy_top_89 said:
Genuinely I think this is a monumentally **** idea regardless of leader.

There are so many ways this can go wrong and the US and Israel clearly have no plan beyond trying to agitate the population into regime change from the air.

Its genuinely appears to be less thought through than Iraq.

Right now the IRGC are still in charge of the country and if they were willing to kill 30,000 people for protesting, think how many they will be willing to kill in the current circumstances.

The current rumour is that the US and Israel are trying to rally Kurdish opposition on the ground, that's the best they can come up with.

Then in purely terms of self interest, it is bad for our country. We were just beginning to show signs of economic recovery, now it could all go back down the toilet again.

So I think regardless of leader this would be worthy of an extreme amount of scorn and/or skepticism
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Yep I do agree with you. All I am saying is my dislike and disdain for Trump has made me take a step back to see if it was him doing it that I was against or the fact that it is basically dumb. To be fair the two things go hand in hand with Trump.

The **** show that he has now unleashed does highlight how stupid it is and there is no thought or even short term plan to it.
 
Shandy_top_89 said:
Genuinely I think this is a monumentally **** idea regardless of leader.

There are so many ways this can go wrong and the US and Israel clearly have no plan beyond trying to agitate the population into regime change from the air.

Its genuinely appears to be less thought through than Iraq.

Right now the IRGC are still in charge of the country and if they were willing to kill 30,000 people for protesting, think how many they will be willing to kill in the current circumstances.

The current rumour is that the US and Israel are trying to rally Kurdish opposition on the ground, that's the best they can come up with.

Then in purely terms of self interest, it is bad for our country. We were just beginning to show signs of economic recovery, now it could all go back down the toilet again.

So I think regardless of leader this would be worthy of an extreme amount of scorn and/or skepticism
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This (and I really, really, really hate the Iranian regime too).
 
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I work in Dock Gate 4 (in Southampton) and there is currently four Turkish Navy ships including their flagship TCG Anadolu which is an amphibious assault ship and drone carrier plus 3 frigates docked outside my office window! Don't see Navy ships docked here very often, it's usually cruise ships! but it's nothing to do with what's going on in the Middle East right now, they've been on deployment on a NATO exercise in the Baltic since January. Still interesting to see though!
 
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Shandy_top_89 said:
Badenoch sounded rather bloodthirsty in today's PMQs, wants us arm deep in this conflict.

Someone needs to send her a Blair mask.
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The problem is that the opposition have to disagree with the party in power. Deep down she may realise what a **** show this is, but is using it as points scoring against Starmer. I am by no means a Starmer fan and find him quite weak, but I agree 100% with his stance. We should not get embroiled in this war and frankly there should be no war. Very rarely if ever does military might solve long term issues. Diplomacy does.

Rather than cosy up to Trump, we should be questioning his motives. It isn’t ’America First’ and if it is, it isn’t in our national interests. And like LTL I despise the Iranian regime.
 
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thereisonlyoneno7 said:
The problem is that the opposition have to disagree with the party in power. Deep down she may realise what a **** show this is, but is using it as points scoring against Starmer. I am by no means a Starmer fan and find him quite weak, but I agree 100% with his stance. We should not get embroiled in this war and frankly there should be no war. Very rarely if ever does military might solve long term issues. Diplomacy does.

Rather than cosy up to Trump, we should be questioning his motives. It isn’t ’America First’ and if it is, it isn’t in our national interests. And like LTL I despise the Iranian regime.
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Honestly, this is actually very rare for the opposition, when it comes to national security they are usually much more cooperative and engaged.

What Badenoch is doing here is not normal for the Leader of the Opposition, the only other LOTO to really diverge like this was Corbyn after Salisbury.
 
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Shandy_top_89 said:
Honestly, this is actually very rare for the opposition, when it comes to national security they are usually much more cooperative and engaged.

What Badenoch is doing here is not normal for the Leader of the Opposition, the only other LOTO to really diverge like this was Corbyn after Salisbury.
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The Conservative leader drew fury from the Labour benches, when she described Starmer as having a clueless "sea of orcs and goons" around him. Starmer stressed that he is focused on the national interest. Political point scoring and now abuse, this is hardly going to gain any kind of support, other from her own followers.
 
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SAINTOSPREY said:
The Conservative leader drew fury from the Labour benches, when she described Starmer as having a clueless "sea of orcs and goons" around him. Starmer stressed that he is focused on the national interest. Political point scoring and now abuse, this is hardly going to gain any kind of support, other from her own followers.
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She called them all paed o (turns out this word is censored now) defenders last week, so personal insults are apparently her thing now.

Just makes her look unserious, if you are going to insult people in the House of Commons you at least have to pretend to be clever or fun about it, otherwise you simply sound like a dick and a bit of an idiot for not coming up with anything more intelligent.
 
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SAINTOSPREY said:
The Conservative leader drew fury from the Labour benches, when she described Starmer as having a clueless "sea of orcs and goons" around him. Starmer stressed that he is focused on the national interest. Political point scoring and now abuse, this is hardly going to gain any kind of support, other from her own followers.
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What it will gain her is sympathetic headlines in the Mail, Telegraph etc
 
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What were the Israelis and the US thinking, protecting themselves from their avowed enemies? What a monumentally **** idea. Far better to let Iran nuke Israel off the face of the earth and save the region's paid terrorists the bother. Then all the antisemites around the world can have one big party, it's pretty obvious why the commentary is going this way.
 
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It'sOnlyAGame said:
What were the Israelis and the US thinking, protecting themselves from their avowed enemies? What a monumentally **** idea. Far better to let Iran nuke Israel off the face of the earth and save the region's paid terrorists the bother. Then all the antisemites around the world could have one big party, it's pretty obvious why the commentary is going this way.
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But the nuclear capabilities were obliterated by the last pre-emptive strike the tangerine turd said so.
 
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It'sOnlyAGame said:
What were the Israelis and the US thinking, protecting themselves from their avowed enemies? What a monumentally **** idea. Far better to let Iran nuke Israel off the face of the earth and save the region's paid terrorists the bother. Then all the antisemites around the world can have one big party, it's pretty obvious why the commentary is going this way.
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Nobody is suggesting that though. It's not a binary thing. Either blow them up now (with no discernible strategy) or they'll suddenly have a nuke that they'll launch at Israel. That's not the game. They're a ****ing awful, minging, horrendous bunch that are in charge over there, but as I've already said, the containment route was working with the nuclear deal (which Trump tore up because he's a tit) - because of his fit of pique in doing that, the Iranians started getting back into the uranium enrichment gig, so he then "obliterated their nuclear capacity" (either he did or he didn't - if he did, as claimed, then they were nowhere near getting that back. If he didn't, then he's a ****ing liar. Again). Even at that point, the Omanis were 24 hours away from securing a new deal with invasive inspections of all potential Iranian nuclear development sites, before Trump decided he was a bit bored and launched the attack, probably because Netanyahu told him he had a really amazingly big willy or something (or a combination of that and "ooh, the Epstein stuff is getting a bit close, best we do something mental”). The Omanis are rightly ****ing fuming about that.

If there was any kind of coherent strategy, it would be understandable. His sensible generals all warned about not doing this. He's trying to replicate what he did with Venezuela on a completely different scenario and country, and that WILL NOT WORK. So he's now destabilised the region, thrown everything up in the air, put a load of people unnecessarily at risk, and decapitated the leader of the regime, which will make no discernible difference.

Two things can be true at the same time. The Iranian regime is horrendous, and we should do all we can to hurry that along toward it's demise. Trump is an idiot with no discernible plan, and no patience to see things through properly.
 
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It'sOnlyAGame said:
What were the Israelis and the US thinking, protecting themselves from their avowed enemies? What a monumentally **** idea. Far better to let Iran nuke Israel off the face of the earth and save the region's paid terrorists the bother. Then all the antisemites around the world could have one big party, it's pretty obvious why the commentary is going this way.
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Probably be best if the USA and Israel bombed the capitals of every dodgy regime, just to be on the safe side. The only drawback can think of is, this would involve bombing each other…
 
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HIGNFY
Donald Trump says the next leader of Iran could be "just as bad as the previous person", so this has all been really worth it then.
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The resultant power vacuum in Iran will be no different to Iraq and Libya. I can see this bringing down the Trump administration. This is assuming the Iran regime is brought down. I can see someone like the anti cleric and popularist Adminajad taking control.


Future prediction....Hesketh gets sent to prison for war crimes.
 
Ian Thumwood said:
The resultant power vacuum in Iran will be no different to Iraq and Libya. I can see this bringing down the Trump administration. This is assuming the Iran regime is brought down. I can see someone like the anti cleric and popularist Adminajad taking control.


Future prediction....Hesketh gets sent to prison for war crimes.
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The Iraq war didn't bring down the Bush administration (although the US as a nation were out for blood for obvious reasons). Even so I struggle to see how this will bring down the Trump administration.
 
StJabbo1 said:
HIGNFY
Donald Trump says the next leader of Iran could be "just as bad as the previous person", so this has all been really worth it then.
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Well that's the point. There's no plan other than hoping the Iranian people "rise up" and overthrow the government, which is going to be pretty tricky against a radicalised IRGC who are the folk with all the guns. You're not going to be able to do that without boots on the ground, and that isn't going to happen.

If there's no leader (because you are killing them all), who are you negotiating with?
 
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