Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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I am awaiting a Spiked article about the rise in anti trans violence over the last few years. Swings and roundabout, innit.
And one praising the patriotic efforts of the flag shaggers.
Perversely I think this increases the chance of Rayner being the next Labour leader.
Keeps her from being tarnished further in the eyes of the Labour membership who hate Starmer and the Government. Likely will retain internal popularity despite this situation and people have come back from severe transgressions before (See: Priti Patel and Gavin Williamson).
Of course how she would perform with the public is another matter, but can see her retaining popularity within the Party itself, which is what she needs to be leader.
And in the era of Reform, do the public actually care that much about standards anymore? Just 'My Team v Your Team'.
If she can defend her seat against Reform that is.
Keeps her from being tarnished further in the eyes of the Labour membership who hate Starmer and the Government. Likely will retain internal popularity despite this situation and people have come back from severe transgressions before (See: Priti Patel and Gavin Williamson).
Of course how she would perform with the public is another matter, but can see her retaining popularity within the Party itself, which is what she needs to be leader.
And in the era of Reform, do the public actually care that much about standards anymore? Just 'My Team v Your Team'.
If she can defend her seat against Reform that is.
All they have to offer is Thatchersism on steroids, with added racism which they no longer bother trying to hide.
Oh I see shut down anything racist or xenophobic the working class want to say, eh? It is this kind of classism that is going to get the racist Reform party elected. When will you lefties learn that calling good, honest, working class racists racist is alienating all the racists? Next you will be saying it is wrong to call for the burning of immigrants in their beds!
I am developing my Reform bingo card of things I think could happen if they achieve a majority, including;
1 Deploy the Navy against small boats in the Channel, bonus points for shooting or intentionally drowning. (To raucous celebrations from many at home).
2 Deletion of the BBC, bonus points for license fee redirected to GB News and creation of a GBBC Brand to become the new National Broadcaster where only Reform UK approved content can be broadcast, bonus points for Nigel Farage still having his own show whilst Prime Minister.
3 Other broadcasters severely restricted on news content and other journalism. Newspapers similarly severely restricted.
4 US style Evangelical megachurches begin being promoted and installed in the UK, mandatory attendance as part of schooling, whether you are Christian or not.
5 Vaccine research banned or severely curtailed.
6 Guns legalised US style and school shootings to become a common place event in the UK, alongside soaring rates of crime and violence to US levels.
7 Martial law declared after some manufactured crisis.
8 Severe gerrymandering of constituencies.
9 'Security' deployed to polling stations for future elections, who may display a keen interest in who you are voting for.
10 Extreme austerity for all public services and any form of 'benefit' including items such as PIP, paternity payments (men should stay at work, women should stay at home), but an increase in borrowing to facilitate tax cuts for high earners.
11 Abortion banned.
12 Abolishment of the NHS, replacement with US Style insurance system (the European or hybrid model Farage keeps referring to will mysteriously disappear).
13 Immediate revocation of support for Ukraine and Ukrainian nationals who came here as part of the 'Homes for Ukraine' scheme are here rounded up and removed back to Ukraine. Zelenskyy made 'persona non-grata' in the UK.
14 Another state visit for the US, alongside a state visit for Vladimir Putin.
15 Reform install a member of their own party as speaker in the House of Commons (ok technically speaking they would be due this if they were elected as it alternates between the top two parties and Hoyle came from labour), bonus points for making Lee Anderson the speaker.
16 Severe restrictions on debate and voting in the House of Commons. Opposition MPs not allowed to scrutinise the government.
17 House of Commons Committees abolished, or only available to Reform MPs.
18 House of Lords flooded with Reform members to the point of a Reform majority in the chamber.
19 Abolition of the minimum wage.
20 Destruction of all green energy capacity, move further back towards oil, coal and gas. Fracking to be widespread. Shrinking of the energy mix causes pricing to soar further.
21 Low wage migrant Labour to INCREASE.
22 Scottish and Welsh Parliaments abolished or bypassed.
23 UK withdraws from the Good Friday Agreement.
24 UK withdraws from the ECHR (ok this is a given), but the British Bill of Rights that replaces it is basically toilet paper.
Anyone have anything else to suggest?
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So the right wing media did for Rayner just as they did with Corbyn. What is the betting they will now go for the Chancellor. A closer look at Farage's tax arrangements would be very fruitful given the damning article in today's Guardian.
I was an avid reader of Kipling as a boy so I was delighted to read this letter in today's Times:
Sir, In The Flag of their Country, one of the stories in Rudyard Kipling’s Stalky & Co, a politician makes a speech at Stalky’s school. Most of the pupils are army officers’ sons and will follow in their fathers’ footsteps, but they are embarrassed and disgusted by his patronising jingoism and appalled when he crowns his address by unfurling a Union Jack. They call him “a Flopshus Cad, an Outrageous Stinker, a Jelly-bellied Flag-flapper … and several other things which it is not seemly to put down”.
Neil Tidmarsh
London EC1
Sir, In The Flag of their Country, one of the stories in Rudyard Kipling’s Stalky & Co, a politician makes a speech at Stalky’s school. Most of the pupils are army officers’ sons and will follow in their fathers’ footsteps, but they are embarrassed and disgusted by his patronising jingoism and appalled when he crowns his address by unfurling a Union Jack. They call him “a Flopshus Cad, an Outrageous Stinker, a Jelly-bellied Flag-flapper … and several other things which it is not seemly to put down”.
Neil Tidmarsh
London EC1
Guys, instead of ruminating over how dreadful Farage is, what’s wrong with Reform and saying that people who vote for them are idiots (all of which I agree with, FWIW), perhaps energies would be better used not doing exactly what the democrats did in the US to allow Trump in (which is precisely what you’re doing), but in looking at the actual reasons a large part of the population are so disenfranchised, and questioning if there are valid reasons for them to be so, and what solutions one might offer up.
The answer to that is declining social mobility, high rents and low wages which have not kept up with inflation. However, people are being hoodwinked into scapegoating ‘inmigrants’ - as they have been all too often in periods of economic lows throughout time.
So, who will take the hit to change things? Easier to go after Abdul from Afghanistan than Percival from Ealing…
My personal opinion (which is entirely irrelevant) is that all of the above could be, and likely are true - declining social mobility, high rents, low wages and poorly managed immigration and integration.
The point is, the solution isn’t to say “you’re all silly, you’ve been hoodwinked, and your leader is smelly”.
That arrogant, smug approach will be the downfall, and you can bet your bottom inflated dollar that it’s precisely what Farage is counting on.
The last one is massively misrepresented. Immigration has almost halved over the last two years. Huge numbers of immigrants are actually students - necessitated by our unwillingness to invest in the universities.
Poor integration is definitely a thing, but how do you fix that? British expats are hardly a shining beacon of how to do it…
Oh Starmer so far is really following the Biden routine of hoping some softly softly restoration of 'business as usual' will put things back on track, it won't.
He needs to be much much more aggressive, sack the board of the BBC and replace it with Labour appointees (the current board is still full of Conservative members and donors, why?). Revisit 'Leveson Part two'. Look at banning foreign interference sites like X and Facebook. Take control of the message.
Yes, I am being authoritarian, but if he doesnt do it - Farage will do it 100x harder in the other direction once he gets in and once that happens you will never reverse the damage.
The time to play nice is over.
Also the obvious root of all evils is the notable decline in living standards and purchase power across the middle class and working class, until you visibly start to turn that around it is a losing game.
Oh and electoral reform is an absolute must, but hey he has no interest in it.
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There js exactly no way to fight this. Not one. You cannot out ‘mush’ Farage. You cannot explain to the masses that they are wrong. Perhaps if we had a press with loftier goals than stoking outrage it might be possible.
The only way to win the population around is to make them richer. The debate is not winnable.
There you are again - let’s just say “oh no, you’re wrong” and have a sneer at expats we’re at it.
Say hello to Nigel, Loading.
Until you start realising that in all the hyperbole there are nuggets of truth that need addressing, and until you start concentrating your brain power more on that, and less on haughtily telling folk they’re “wrong” then up until then you’re just pushing the door wider for Reform to step through.
I’m not having a pop at you personally, because I understand your frustration here, but you really are following precisely the playbook of the US (as is Farage).
What are you on about? Why is every response a sneer? Seems a little limp.
I am flattered you think me telling people they are wrong on a widely disused football website could swing the population one way or another. Ta.