Off Topic Politics Thread

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Osvaldorama said:
One of those times where you absolutely have to watch the full meeting and not just the highlights, otherwise you’ll be lost. Love him or hate him, Trump started the meeting by praising Ukraine. Before Zelensky turned to him, Vance started by saying Russia “destroyed” Ukraine. Zelensky decided to turn the meeting into a public spat. Maybe you think he was right to go on offense, but he was absolutely not ambushed.
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Agree that Trump started out by keeping things fairly friendly, albeit with condescending and patronising comments such as "he got all dressed up" thrown in too.

However, it was Vance that escalated matters, accused Zelenskyy of not saying thank you and took it from a normal conversation to verging on shouting.

Zelenskyy then called Vance out on raising his voice, at which point Trump got involved as he knew it made Vance (US) look weak to be called out.

Perhaps Zelenskyy should have chosen his words more carefully when calling Vance out - but you can't deny it was Vance that changed the narrative here.
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
Reform have no policies, their whole ethos is based on making people afraid of something that doesn’t exist. It’s exactly the same strategy that persuaded people to vote for Brexit.

Ironically, one of the chimeras that the Leave campaign kept on about might actually happen now, in the light of Trump’s abandonment of the Western Alliance that has prevailed since 1941. If the USA leaves NATO, then maybe it’s time for a European joint defence organisation.
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I think their policy is a carve up and fire sale of the country’s remaining assets. Which, given the damage in that direction already wrought by Margaret Thatcher, only really leaves the NHS.
 
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ImpSaint said:
The "a vote for X is a vote for Y" BS has worked so well hasn't it!
The "a vote for X is enabling Z" has worked so well hasn't it!

They tried to ban the nazi party and stop them being an option way back when. That worked well didn't it.

For lots of people that warble on about history repeating........People seem to like to repeat the mistakes of the past.
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Never thought the far right would be back in such force across the world, yet here we are. Louder and more belligerent than ever, and already shouting about WWIII.
 
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Osvaldorama said:
One of those times where you absolutely have to watch the full meeting and not just the highlights, otherwise you’ll be lost. Love him or hate him, Trump started the meeting by praising Ukraine. Before Zelensky turned to him, Vance started by saying Russia “destroyed” Ukraine. Zelensky decided to turn the meeting into a public spat. Maybe you think he was right to go on offense, but he was absolutely not ambushed.
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No, sorry Os. You're right in saying that the meeting was going fine, but it was Vance that escalated it and turned it into the ****show it became, not Zelenskyy.
 
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Archers Road said:
I think their policy is a carve up and fire sale of the country’s remaining assets. Which, given the damage in that direction already wrought by Margaret Thatcher, only really leaves the NHS.
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Sorry but misread this and thought the first sentence referred to Trump’s position on Ukraine.

The Trump administration is just looking to exploit a terrible situation to it's financial.advantage.
 
Osvaldorama said:
Apologies to disappoint my fans but I was actually out and about. Just sat down and watched the whole thing.

It’s sad that zelensky forced this kind of conversation into the public domain, as it doesn’t help his cause. Everything Trump (and especially Vance) said was correct imo.

I noticed that most of the media were quick to cut the first sections of the conversation off.

I think ultimately zelensky comes out of this interaction worse as the American taxpayer will be even more baffled as to why they are funding this war.

People hate Trump but he’s the only honest and transparent one there

"you don't have the cards right now"

"I'm not playing cards"

"oh you're playing cards. you're gambling with the lives of millions of people. you're gambling with world war three."
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Whatever your opinion is, this should not happen in front of the media. They're making it a drama, intentionally. Politics are changing and alliances are shifting but this is not how a democracy should handle political disagreements. At the very least, it's unprofessional... But with the Russian journalist there too, this can be seen as a lot more sinister.
 
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All_Southampton_FC said:
Whatever your opinion is, this should not happen in front of the media. They're making it a drama, intentionally. Politics are changing and alliances are shifting but this is not how a democracy should handle political disagreements. At the very least, it's unprofessional... But with the Russian journalist there too, this can be seen as a lot more sinister.
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Absolutely, sinister indeed. These are not statesman. I think his treatment was disgusting.
 
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shoot_spiderman said:
Confirmation that we need to be strengthening our links to Europe and minimising our exposure to the US …

Whilst bearing in mind our need to maintain diplomatic links in our own interests

I think this is already Starmer’s approach anyway to an extent
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Labour have said they won’t be chasing every headline, especially when it comes to Trump. Which is a wise tactic imo, but it’s ironic that for the first time since last July they finally got some good headlines, then Trump publicly sets fire to any goodwill accrued In transAtlantic relations.
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
Reform have no policies, their whole ethos is based on making people afraid of something that doesn’t exist. It’s exactly the same strategy that persuaded people to vote for Brexit.

Ironically, one of the chimeras that the Leave campaign kept on about might actually happen now, in the light of Trump’s abandonment of the Western Alliance that has prevailed since 1941. If the USA leaves NATO, then maybe it’s time for a European joint defence organisation.
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They do have policies. Some of which a lot of people would agree with if it was a blind manifesto read and you didn't know it was reform.

Whether their funding calculations are realistic is another question.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqll1edxgw4o.amp
 
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As others have said, whatever your political views I feel what happened is pretty indefensible.

This has been played out as political drama in public. This isn’t an TV show it is real lives. Millions of them.

All of this should happen behind closed doors. To do it in front of the world media and to practically ambush a guy who is under so much pressure as his country is at war is disgusting.

The US aren’t interested in peace, but in what suits them and it is turning into another dick swinging competition ‘my help is better than yours’.

How friggin condescending to get Volenskyy like a child to say thank you! Who the **** do the US think they are. Other nations do it maybe for political reasons, but also because it is the right thing as human beings.

Losing more respect for the US people that could actually vote for a regime like this every day.
 
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Ronnie Hotdog (MLsfc) said:
Agree that Trump started out by keeping things fairly friendly, albeit with condescending and patronising comments such as "he got all dressed up" thrown in too.

However, it was Vance that escalated matters, accused Zelenskyy of not saying thank you and took it from a normal conversation to verging on shouting.

Zelenskyy then called Vance out on raising his voice, at which point Trump got involved as he knew it made Vance (US) look weak to be called out.

Perhaps Zelenskyy should have chosen his words more carefully when calling Vance out - but you can't deny it was Vance that changed the narrative here.
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Not helped by some cretin insulting him about his dress code. It was the combination of bullying by Vance and Trump that did the damage. No diplomatic protocol there. It's great to see someone brave enough to stand their ground. The US are clearly only interested in making money out of the Ukraine, the human element doesn't come in to it in my opinion.
 
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