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Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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It's really not worth replying to that moral tale. There's fault on all sides. I don't blame anyone for the lack of movement on climate, except those who did know for sure, since the late 1970s - the Oil Industries. I also blame the specific politicians who have eagerly been in their pocket. Since then they have systematically driven a campaign of FUD to muddy the evidence. For example, the so-called "climate-gate" from this previous decade was a case in point. This blew up through a series of emails sent between climatologists, talking in shorthand jargon, which to anyone with a smattering of climate knowledge, would have been as innocent as... But funded right-wing media leaped all over it, in order to discredit scientists who are actually looking after our best interests.
But if we didn't know before, we know NOW. If you choose to ignore the clear blatant evidence, on the basis that you don't understand it, then go and attend evening classes or something. Or watch Open University programmes on the climate. Or trust people who know - climarte scientists. This is way, way too important to ignore.
Oh, and yes, people knew of the consequences of petrol and diesel engines when they were invented. In fact, just a couple of decades or so after the Industrial Revolution started, the first report on the IR influence to the atmosphere was published. In that paper, it was predicted that the atmosphere could become increasingly acid [it did] and that the globe would start to warm if the trends of the time carried on. Scientists have never been stupid. They've just lacked the data. They don't now. Now what are going to do? Carry on as normal?
The way I see it we have a choice between socialist who really cares about ordinary people and a lying tory bastard who only cares about the really rich.
British author Lee Child, who writes the Jack Reacher books, has applied for an Irish passport because of Brexit:
https://www.lbcnews.co.uk/uk-news/83709bf69c6e499eaaf5b6151e446b53/
https://www.lbcnews.co.uk/uk-news/83709bf69c6e499eaaf5b6151e446b53/
sorry mate people did not know about climate change when these engines were invented. Yes they knew they gave off fumes but accepted that as progress. Are you saying they shouldn’t have been used or that steam engines should not have been used?. How do you think the world would have evolved without these inventions? How do you think they obtained data for the way things we now know were not so good? Why do you suggest they are going to carry on as normal? Since the 70s we have tried to get successive governments to listen and to think of the environment. We were laughed at we were insulted and told we didn’t have a clue. Eventually we got people to listen. Yes that was my generation oldies like myself and godders and co. The youngsters are trying to take the credit for what a lot of us started. Good luck to them......but you can’t blame all of us oldies for everything that goes wrong. The oldies are being blamed for the Brexit problems how that is not considered age discrimination I really don’t know. Just like in 50 years people will be having very similar arguments about today’s inventions this cannot be avoided. Things change ideas change behaviour changes this is to be expected......allowances have to be made and overcome.
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That’s about it.
Unfortunately, because the media has done such an excellent job of demonising Socialism, people are conditioned to recoil from the word.
Concepts like compassion, co-operation, and responsibility to one’s community still presumably have traction though, even in this cynical age. And that’s basically what Socialism is.
I think people have had enough of the dog eat cat, every man for himself ethos, and might actual be ready for a return of mutual responsibility. Most people are like that in their everyday lives anyway, they’ve just been brainwashed into think economies can only run on naked self interest and greed.
absolute bollocks. Us oldies did nothing. Just hoped the oil didn't run out
You are talking crap as usual...........I've the bloody scars and the bills to prove what quite a few of us tried to do to help the environment.........Not all of my generation true but more than is given credit for. I do however get upset when people like you try to brand us as being the same as you in not caring. A lot of us did. I have personally campaigned about diesel fumes in particular....certainly to the labour government at one time when they had the idea of making the diesel fuel something in the order of 10p either a gallon or litre less expensive than petrol . Trying to encourage people to go for diesel cars. Diesel was encouraged but trust me thousands of us disagreed. Strangely at the time if memory serves it was the youngsters who were telling us we were taking away their right to choose!!
Veteran campaigning journalist John Pilger’s new film is released in British cinemas on 1st December. It details the increasing privatisation of the greatest healthcare system in the world, and what might happen if enough ****ing deluded idiots vote Tory in the election. Here’s the trailer:
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As you look back in time, the ability of the average person to have gained the information we now have access to, decreases year on year. Yes there were scientific warnings being flagged up as far back as 1898 but only the academic and scientists were able to publish, and often read, those findings. Yes governments knew, of course they knew, but as we all know, industrialisation, wealth generation (especially their own) and expansion of territorial holdings were the things of most interest. The average person of the day could not have possibly foreseen the massive population explosion that has happened in the latter part of the last century, and this one ..... and the population explosion is where the main problem is.
Yes internal combustion engines were known to pollute, but no one could have imagined all those years ago that in 2019 there would be 1.3 billion cars on the roads, and that is without counting all the vans, trucks, coaches, buses, trains, ships and aircraft spewing out filth. Pollution levels are now way beyond critical and even though governments of today and making noises about changing things, it's probably far too little, far too late.
Who is to blame? No point in going there, because to varying degrees we all are. Corrupt governments in the pockets of the main polluters are never going to really get serious about it, because of the money involved and the remedial action required is seen by them as political suicide. Most politicians these days are short sighted and power hungry. When an honest politician with a heart stands up and tells it like it is they are abused and ridiculed. Society counts for nothing to the corrupt. Money and power is all they are interested in.
Not being a doom monger, my take on it is that with little or no slow down in worldwide pollution levels, deforestation gathering pace and protectionism holding sway in more and more countries, we are ****ed. The planet will survive, its scars will heal in time, but the majority of the human race will die out. Too few people will give up too little to make any difference.
Yes internal combustion engines were known to pollute, but no one could have imagined all those years ago that in 2019 there would be 1.3 billion cars on the roads, and that is without counting all the vans, trucks, coaches, buses, trains, ships and aircraft spewing out filth. Pollution levels are now way beyond critical and even though governments of today and making noises about changing things, it's probably far too little, far too late.
Who is to blame? No point in going there, because to varying degrees we all are. Corrupt governments in the pockets of the main polluters are never going to really get serious about it, because of the money involved and the remedial action required is seen by them as political suicide. Most politicians these days are short sighted and power hungry. When an honest politician with a heart stands up and tells it like it is they are abused and ridiculed. Society counts for nothing to the corrupt. Money and power is all they are interested in.
Not being a doom monger, my take on it is that with little or no slow down in worldwide pollution levels, deforestation gathering pace and protectionism holding sway in more and more countries, we are ****ed. The planet will survive, its scars will heal in time, but the majority of the human race will die out. Too few people will give up too little to make any difference.
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Just as a matter of interest......when I was 14 or so I had a Saturday job going around delivering lemonade. We used an electric vehicle to do that it took about 3.5 ton in weight. Other than milk floats I could never understand why they didn't catch on more from then. Mainly I suppose because we didn't have the technology for greater distances with battery power
I think simply because the ICE was faster and could travel longer distances.
It's an interesting point. I have posted several times on the fossil fuel industries' willingness to buy up all the electric public transportation systems and trash them. If, IF we had continued with electric vehicles, our cities would have have been way, way cleaner. We could have had fossil fuel transportation for longer distances, while battery technology was explored and developed. But battery technology research basically ground to a virtual halt after the rise of the fossil fuel engine.
The single advantage the ICE engine has over the BEV, is that its fuel has an enormous energy density. Even today, although that is narrowing fast. But even over 100 years ago, electric cars were quiet, efficient, and could do a day's mileage for most people, before requiring an overnight charge. They were also much more reliable. Yet they were superceded by the ICE engine because there was more money in it for the Oil Industries. No other reason.
Is it also though that fuel (rather then electricity) WAS cheaper? I don't know, I am genuinely putting it out there as I am only young
Also, isn't it weird that we say fuel is expensive (it is) but we are willing to pay £1.50 for 1 litre of water from the supermarket, but not £1.25 for a litre of petrol?