Off Topic Politics Thread

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StJabbo1 said:
I was waiting for that stock cut and paste reply totally predictable given the Trumpette nonsense you've spouted. Where's the Owen Jones statement you say he made? You really should back up your argument with verifiable facts or better just **** right off.
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so Jones accusing people of a crime that at the moment no one has seen any proof of happening, yet the press and politicians have taken as gospel, is not a concern to you. I never said anything about a Jones statement, he made his claims on Twitter like an 8 year old. I want to see a police report and video from outside the pub before I start accusing people, it is he that needs verifiable facts so in your own words you can ++++ right off
 
Onionman said:
Oh do **** off, Timmy.

Where are their parents or grandparents mentioned? I've also corrected the last sentence.
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their families are not mentioned, which is why he could be talking about their districts. this is the bit that gets me, even more racist. a racist is a racist. or are there Monday racists, Friday racists, Trump was fine until he pissed off the left so maybe there is such a thing as suddenly becoming racist when you are in your 70s
 
benditlikeabanana said:
so Jones accusing people of a crime that at the moment no one has seen any proof of happening, yet the press and politicians have taken as gospel, is not a concern to you. I never said anything about a Jones statement, he made his claims on Twitter like an 8 year old. I want to see a police report and video from outside the pub before I start accusing people, it is he that needs verifiable facts so in your own words you can ++++ right off
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Punching Nazis you claim he said, Let's see that in context not a cut and paste
 
benditlikeabanana said:
their families are not mentioned, which is why he could be talking about their districts. this is the bit that gets me, even more racist. a racist is a racist. or are there Monday racists, Friday racists, Trump was fine until he pissed off the left so maybe there is such a thing as suddenly becoming racist when you are in your 70s
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When you first asked why we called Trump racist, part of my (ignored) response was:

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Prior to being president:
Sued by the DoJ for refusing to rent properties to black applicants in the 1970's

Took out full-page ads demanding the death penalty for the Central Park 5. (A year or two ago, despite their exoneration thanks to DNA evidence after spending a decade in prison, Trump said he still thinks they are guilty). It may, of course, be a coincidence that the CP5 are black

Suggesting a judge (presiding over his long con the Trump University) should recuse himself because his ancestry was Mexican

Here's a quote about a black accountant that he admitted is accurate: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.”

Said that people who come to the US from Haiti "all have AIDS"
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I know it's inconvenient to have your misunderstandings pointed out but I'm not accusing him of turning racist at 70. He appears always to have been racist.

Don't worry, I'm awaiting your considered rereading of all of those to prove he's lovely. However, as you tend to focus on a word or a sentence, explain the bit in bold away as not being racist.

I'm sure you'll lose focus but this is the bit I want you to explain away as not being racist: "laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control." That bit. The bit in bold. That Trump admits he said.

[EDIT] Trump at first denied the remarks, but later said in a 1997 Playboy interview that “the stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true.”

Vin
 
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St Badger said:
Don’t get me wrong.
I don’t think that he should have to step aside and you are quite right that he should put himself forward to lead an interim government, as is his right as the leader of the opposition. I am just saying that those who want to stop a no deal Brexit need to be looking at the bigger picture and should that mean Corbyn taking a back seat, in this instance, then so be it. It could actually help him win back support, because he can use the fact that the Lib Dems won’t support him, thus trying to destroy the chance of stopping Brexit, against them at the next election. He would have the moral high ground, and could put it in all the election material.
My only concern, at this moment, is that the vote of no confidence is successful and that Brexit of any kind is blocked.
Corbyn wants a general election and needs to get it anyway he can.
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I would personally put stopping a no-deal Brexit before every other political consideration between now and October 31st, and I sincerely hope that responsible MPs of all parties are willing to co-operate to that end.

I'm not massively confident that they will. But we'll see. The last thing to leave Pandora's box was hope.
 
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benditlikeabanana said:
many have said that Jeremy Corbyn is anti semitic and a therefor a racist, so that would also make the Labour Party and Labour supporters Racist bigots as well, got it, so are you a racist bigot
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But no one has been able to dig up a single quote from Jeremy Corbyn that is remotely anti semitic. The best his detractors in the press can come up with - and boy, have they been digging hard - is this or that person he may have shared a platform with; guilt by association in other words.

With Trump, it isn't necessary to dig or to distort. His racism is loud and proud
 
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benditlikeabanana said:
many have said that Jeremy Corbyn is anti semitic and a therefor a racist, so that would also make the Labour Party and Labour supporters Racist bigots as well, got it, so are you a racist bigot
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All of this is a dodge as well. We’re not talking about Labour, or Jeremy Corbyn.

It would not surprise me at all if you thought I was a bigot. I understand and do not care. Pretty much, one of us has to be. I think it’s you, you think it’s me.

We’re all just beating around the bush here. The problem has nothing to do with what Trump said or what Corbyn said and how we interpret those remarks. We have fundamentally opposing beliefs about race and culture regardless of what is happening in politics.
 
If Corbyn genuinely wants to scupper a No Deal Brexit he will stand aside for someone who can garner support from the likes of Letwin and Grieve as well as the LD's. And of course there could be an advantage in this for him when it comes to a GE too. He can then point to his credentials añd be a hero to Remainers, taking back a serious chunk of the thankful defector's votes.

But everything in Corbyn's Bennite past is pointing to him being a Leaver. He hangs in to the dream of a majority in parliament without the EU being able to seriously restrain his actions in creating his Socialist utopia in exactly the way that JRM, Boris and the likes of that despicable under stone dwelling amoebae Francois have of creating a wonderful banana republic in the North Sea where they can exploit the proletariat like some kind of latter day Les Miserables.
 
TheSecondStain said:
ISIRTP suggested I walked away from the debate just the other day. Then he couldn't resist wading in himself. :)
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Debate? I don't know about that, post after post detailing Trump's racist bleatings met with total bollocks.
Edit, I'm being unkind to bollocks, keyboard gobshite a better description.
 
TheSecondStain said:
ISIRTP suggested I walked away from the debate just the other day. Then he couldn't resist wading in himself. :)
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Heh. My point though, is that there isn’t really a debate here. No amount of dragging up various Trump tweets is going to fix it. Everyone has read those same quotes. It’s not fair to ask people to go around and pull up 50 quotes that you know they have read and that you also have read.

We are either okay with being accused of racism and calling other people racist... or we just talk about something else.
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
Heh. My point though, is that there isn’t really a debate here. No amount of dragging up various Trump tweets is going to fix it. Everyone has read those same quotes. It’s not fair to ask people to go around and pull up 50 quotes that you know they have read and that you also have read.

We are either okay with being accused of racism and calling other people racist... or we just talk about something else.
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Once again, I take your point. But there's little point in arguing whether Trump is a racist or not unless one brings the evidence, points to it and says, OK, deny that! Otherwise it is opinion against opinion, and that settles nothing.
 
TheSecondStain said:
Once again, I take your point. But there's little point in arguing whether Trump is a racist or not unless one brings the evidence, points to it and says, OK, deny that! Otherwise it is opinion against opinion, and that settles nothing.
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I agree, except there might just be undecided people reading this thread who could conceivably be swayed by the utter bollocks that the pro-Trumpers come out with. Those people, if they are out there, need the alternative view being aired, if by some slim chance they don’t see it anywhere else.
 
incidentally, two things:
1] that Pindex video was aimed at the USA primarily [note Red for Conservative, Blue for Liberal, the reverse of party colour, if anything to the UK]
2] At the end, Stephen requests that you go over to Change a View,com for his assertion that Elizabeth Warren is the best candidate to run for Presidential office in 2020. [Stephen is NOT a Trump supporter]. In my opinion, Warren takes some beating. She is sharp, academic, informed and a great debater. I would say the same, to a slightly lesser extent of Bernie Sanders, although he has a wealth of experience. But both are a little light on the coming trends in employment and jobs, and this is where Andrew Yang is extremely strong. On the strength of my researches into Yang, I started listening to his audiobook, which someone actually uploaded to Youtube. Bit naughty, but I doubt whether yang would complain. I would encourage anyone to have a good listen. You may not be from the USA, but the UK is fast going the USA route, at present. It's because of this that I have been doing a quite a bit more reading than I usually do into USA political trends in the last 9 months. Here's a YT link to Yang's book, The War On Normal People:
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