Off Topic Politics Thread

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Schad said:
It certainly would be an act of self-interest rather than mercy (though Brexit would make Irish reunification more likely), but it's mostly that a party that steadfastly refuses to participate in Parliament may be Parliament's only salvation.

Though increasingly I suspect that someone will cross the aisle in short order and bring it down anyway.
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The other side of that coin is the number of pro-Leave Labour MP’s, most of whom would support a no-deal Brexit, although they might stop short of supporting Johnson in a confidence motion. Plus of course we have Charlie Elphicke, who is a Tory MP who has had the whip withdrawn while the accusations of his sexual offences are investigated. He will vote with Johnson on any issue.
 
They'll vote for Brexit; will they vote to prop up the government in a no-confidence vote?
 
Yeah, I'm confused. I guess I don't really grasp all the complexities of England/NI/Ireland issues.

Like why would they hitch themselves to what must appear to them as a rapidly sinking England who is actively trying to screw them over and take their autonomy, when a Brexit would give them the perfect impetus to ditch England's sorry ass and unite Ireland as an official country in the EU? Wouldn't a Brexit be the best thing that could happen for them?
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
Yeah, I'm confused. I guess I don't really grasp all the complexities of England/NI/Ireland issues.

Like why would they hitch themselves to what must appear to them as a rapidly sinking England who is actively trying to screw them over and take their autonomy, when a Brexit would give them the perfect impetus to ditch England's sorry ass and unite Ireland as an official country in the EU? Wouldn't a Brexit be the best thing that could happen for them?
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It’s a fair point, but the majority of people in Northern Ireland have benefited massively from having 20 years of peace, and would probably rather not have to go through any more turmoil, even if the outcome was reunification and rejoining the EU. I’m pretty sure most of them would rather stay as they are, and Sinn Féin probably know that.
 
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Jeez^^. I wasn't aware it was that bad.

Here's another thing. Under the present government, the UK is fast tracking towards a USA style economy - the individual basically pays for every service, and if you can't afford it, you don't have it. Like health insurance.
Well, even though the USA is the richest country in the world, the average American is half as wealthy as the average Italian in Italy. Seems ridiculous? OK, if you redistribute the wealth equally among every American in the USA, they end up being twice as well off as the average Italian in Italy. That's the Mean average. But the wealth is so skewed in favour of the very few rich in the USA that the Median average, that's the vast rump in the centre - are half as well off as the Median Italian in Italy. And bear in mind the political instability in Italy too. That is a verifiable factoid from the current book I'm reading, There Is No Planet B. You can either take my word for it, or I'll dig out the source. It's a faff, so I haven't done it straight up.

So be careful what you wish for. This is why Democratic Socialism is getting itself heard in the USA at last.
 
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If Bunter goes for an early election in the hope that it Will result in more Brexit supporting MPs, as far as I can see it will have to be in October due to MPs being on holiday now and in September there are party conferences. So likely election would be the third week of October, thus Parliament has no time to debate or ratify any Brexit deal. So Bunter has to apply for an extensión which will go down really well with his ERG mate.

PS; The chilling thought is that the UK drops out of the EU without a deal, is perfect timing for the ERG to have an election in late October as that is the default. Rees-Mogg knows what he is doing. Beware the Mogg!!!!
 
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I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
Yeah, I'm confused. I guess I don't really grasp all the complexities of England/NI/Ireland issues.

Like why would they hitch themselves to what must appear to them as a rapidly sinking England who is actively trying to screw them over and take their autonomy, when a Brexit would give them the perfect impetus to ditch England's sorry ass and unite Ireland as an official country in the EU? Wouldn't a Brexit be the best thing that could happen for them?
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Because the majority of Irish voters don't want to unify with Ireland.

A large part of why May's deal was scuppered is because of the backstop which put a border between NI and England which the unionist (which outnumber republicans by a relatively large number I believe) are very opposed. They don't want anything that treats them differently to England.

This is how I understand it anyway.

Also NI MP's have a disproportionately large amount of control over the UK right now.
 
Schad said:
How hilarious would it be if Sinn ****ing Fein stepped in to save the UK from itself.
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Absolutely not going to happen.

First, because a return to a hard border would highlight division, and anything which does that has immense appeal to Sinn Fein’s hardline activists. And second, because they lack both the moral courage and the imagination to think beyond their Nationalist agenda.

The SDLP are the only party in N.I. politics capable of such a bold and unselfish move, but they currently have no seats in Westminster.
 
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Archers Road said:
Absolutely not going to happen.

First, because a return to a hard border would highlight division, and anything which does that has immense appeal to Sinn Fein’s hardline activists. And second, because they lack both the moral courage and the imagination to think beyond their Nationalist agenda.

The SDLP are the only party in N.I. politics capable of such a bold and unselfish move, but they currently have no seats in Westminster.
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There´s also Lady Herman, an independent MP in the province, who rejected the Unionists when Cameron "merged" them with the Conservatives. Duirng the heyday of the last Labour Government, she often voted with Labour. She´s a good one.
 
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The situation in NI is a complex one. Apparently the make up is now around 46/49 Fenian/Prod. The current thinking is that it wouldn't take a lot for younger members of the latter to decide that a better future was on offer by going with the pro choice pro LGBTQ republic rather than the staunchly anti gay Arlene ( How ironic and hypocritical can you get)

Add to that the majority of businesses are Prod owned and those people may decide that the future is brighter as a member of an EU United Ireland. The GFA allows for a border poll, it could well come to that. I think Ian Blackford's jibe about Pfeffel being the last PM of the United Kingdom may well come true.
 
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Farked19 said:
The situation in NI is a complex one. Apparently the make up is now around 46/49 Fenian/Prod. The current thinking is that it wouldn't take a lot for younger members of the latter to decide that a better future was on offer by going with the pro choice pro LGBTQ republic rather than the staunchly anti gay Arlene ( How ironic and hypocritical can you get)

Add to that the majority of businesses are Prod owned and those people may decide that the future is brighter as a member of an EU United Ireland. The GFA allows for a border poll, it could well come to that. I think Ian Blackford's jibe about Pfeffel being the last PM of the United Kingdom may well come true.
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Same sex marriage and abortions are being legalised in October in NI anyway, thanks to the UK being pro choice and pro LGBTQ also.
 
Priti Patel. In comes the new boss same as the old boss and dedicated to the outdated Tory view that you can scare criminals out of committing crime and punish them out of doing it again

Do they really believe the **** they talk or is it just the populist line?
 
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