Off Topic Politics Thread

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Archers Road said:
I’m not going to tar the entire Leave vote with the racist brush. But take out immigration, and an ill defined fear of the foreigners in Brussels, and Brexit isn’t left with much.

Other than a general protest against an out of touch political establishment, that is. By which I mean the political establishment in Westminster. Not at all sure our first-past-the-post two party system is fit for purpose anymore. What a tragedy that Nick Clegg has the chance to address the issue of electoral reform, and utterly blew it.
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Didn't say everyone was racist. I said every leave voter at the very least bought into the lies of racists
 
Missing Lambo said:
Oh bugger off, Badger. It's the "Will of The People" innit?

Look 17.4m said "I'm an anti-European, get me out of here." So what choice did the Govt have? Now, we know some said this for extreme right wing reasons, others for extreme left, others because they had felt disenfranchised for decades and wanted to kick the govt's arse. Others may have stuck a pin in the ballot paper or played scissors, paper stone for all we know.

But they must now be treated as an homogenous group called "The People". Now the silly lot who voted the other way (aka "Losers") are not "The People".

Have you got that now, Badger? No more silly talk, please.
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Sorry :emoticon-0172-mooni <laugh>
 
Beddytare said:
Its not a cop out Fats.......
Fats mate there is no good answer as such or bad for that matter............All I want is for this country to make its own decisions and not be over ruled by unelected people and their cronies. I prefer us to make decisions as to who can or cannot come into the country. Thats not to say they can't be the same or similar to Europe. Just that we make them good or bad! All we get from the stay side is what they think will happen....... fair enough......You get much the same from the out side. All of us is guessing non can prove anything until it happens. A few of us have a different view is all. Perhaps I'm not the best one to argue the out argument because my reasons are very personal. Trust me when I say they are very real though........
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Beddy,
All I’m saying is that leavers have spent three years telling me how better it will be, but not one example of how or what that means. This tells me they don’t know and are probably too proud for to admit it.

If they don’t know and can’t tell me, then my fears remain. It is simple. As someone who has only been an adult in the EU, I know what it has been like for me being in... so all I want is leavers to tell me why leaving will be better.

It’s not that much to ask. Or I wouldn’t think so.

The reason I said your post was a cop out (and I stand by that) is that you just fell back on the old “people See what they want to see” and that is a cop out when being unable to answer a simple question,

If nobody really knows or can say what will be better, then why the hell are we doing it.

I know that it is something personal for you, but if you keep joining in the discussion and making statements like you did, then you should expect to be questioned on it; you can’t tell us who are asking questions trying to find out what may be happening in our futures that it’s just two sides that won’t meet. I want to meet and I want to know these better things that keep being not spoken about. I worry about people who voted to leave without having anything better as the reason.
 
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fatletiss said:
Beddy,
All I’m saying is that leavers have spent three years telling me how better it will be, but not one example of how or what that means. This tells me they don’t know and are probably too productive to admit it.

If they don’t know and can’t tell me, then my fears remain. It is simple. As someone who has only been an adult in the EU, I know what it has been like for me being in... so all I want is leavers to tell me why leaving will be better.

It’s not that much to ask. Or I wouldn’t think so.

The reason I said your post was a cop out (and I stand by that) is that you just fell back on the old “people See what they want to see” and that is a cop out when being unable to answer a simple question,

If nobody really knows or can say what will be better, then why the hell are we doing it.

I know that it is something personal for you, but if you keep joining in the discussion and making statements like you did, then you should expect to be questioned on it; you can’t tell us who are asking questions trying to find out what may be happening in our futures that it’s just two sides that won’t meet. I want to meet and I want to know these better things that keep being not spoken about. I worry about people who voted to leave without having anything better as the reason.
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<applause><applause><applause>
 
fatletiss said:
Beddy,
All I’m saying is that leavers have spent three years telling me how better it will be, but not one example of how or what that means. This tells me they don’t know and are probably too productive to admit it.

If they don’t know and can’t tell me, then my fears remain. It is simple. As someone who has only been an adult in the EU, I know what it has been like for me being in... so all I want is leavers to tell me why leaving will be better.

It’s not that much to ask. Or I wouldn’t think so.

The reason I said your post was a cop out (and I stand by that) is that you just fell back on the old “people See what they want to see” and that is a cop out when being unable to answer a simple question,

If nobody really knows or can say what will be better, then why the hell are we doing it.

I know that it is something personal for you, but if you keep joining in the discussion and making statements like you did, then you should expect to be questioned on it; you can’t tell us who are asking questions trying to find out what may be happening in our futures that it’s just two sides that won’t meet. I want to meet and I want to know these better things that keep being not spoken about. I worry about people who voted to leave without having anything better as the reason.
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In truth Fats I don't know if things will be better as you put it.........They won't be worse if handled properly. Yes for a short while maybe because the EU in particular will want to make sure we sink without trace.
This country mostly follows the rules Fats but so many in the EU do not..........There is a pretence that they are putting things straight. But the information I am getting this is codswallop. This, from inside EU itself. Sadly I can neither prove or disprove it. Like most I have to take other peoples word.
I want the British people to take back the control of our country not have our courts over ruled by anyone other than the British people. Not all of what has happened in the EU is bad for sure and there is nothing against us following their example if need be. Lets make that decision ourselves though. Not to be bullied by other countries to do something which is against our culture or whatever.
I respect other peoples view and do listen even if I disagree and have different views or different take on things. The personal side of things will unfortunately poison my feelings about the EU forever and a day.......As I said before perhaps I am not the one that should be arguing for Brexit because of how I feel.
One final thing I do have a lot of Children and grandchildren not for getting my great grandchildren. Believe me I did way up the pros and cons on how it would affect them. I tried to leave my personal feelings out of the equation. I based most on my dealings with the EU direct over the years. Which at times was horrendous. If we went back to the original agreement of a trade only agreement Id accept that.......but nothing else........
 
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Beddytare said:
In truth Fats I don't know if things will be better as you put it.........They won't be worse if handled properly. Yes for a short while maybe because the EU in particular will want to make sure we sink without trace.
This country mostly follows the rules Fats but so many in the EU do not..........There is a pretence that they are putting things straight. But the information I am getting this is codswallop. This, from inside EU itself. Sadly I can neither prove or disprove it. Like most I have to take other peoples word.
I want the British people to take back the control of our country not have our courts over ruled by anyone other than the British people. Not all of what has happened in the EU is bad for sure and there is nothing against us following their example if need be. Lets make that decision ourselves though. Not to be bullied by other countries to do something which is against our culture or whatever.
I respect other peoples view and do listen even if I disagree and have different views or different take on things. The personal side of things will unfortunately poison my feelings about the EU forever and a day.......As I said before perhaps I am not the one that should be arguing for Brexit because of how I feel.
One final thing I do have a lot of Children and grandchildren not for getting my great grandchildren. Believe me I did way up the pros and cons on how it would affect them. I tried to leave my personal feelings out of the equation. I based most on my dealings with the EU direct over the years. Which at times was horrendous. If we went back to the original agreement of a trade only agreement Id accept that.......but nothing else........
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I always supported EEC but not Lisbon treaty
 
Liam Fox set on screwing us over even more, after Brexit, by striking deals that allow companies to sue the nation, if they can get away with it.

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Beddytare said:
In truth Fats I don't know if things will be better as you put it.........They won't be worse if handled properly. Yes for a short while maybe because the EU in particular will want to make sure we sink without trace.
This country mostly follows the rules Fats but so many in the EU do not..........There is a pretence that they are putting things straight. But the information I am getting this is codswallop. This, from inside EU itself. Sadly I can neither prove or disprove it. Like most I have to take other peoples word.
I want the British people to take back the control of our country not have our courts over ruled by anyone other than the British people. Not all of what has happened in the EU is bad for sure and there is nothing against us following their example if need be. Lets make that decision ourselves though. Not to be bullied by other countries to do something which is against our culture or whatever.
I respect other peoples view and do listen even if I disagree and have different views or different take on things. The personal side of things will unfortunately poison my feelings about the EU forever and a day.......As I said before perhaps I am not the one that should be arguing for Brexit because of how I feel.
One final thing I do have a lot of Children and grandchildren not for getting my great grandchildren. Believe me I did way up the pros and cons on how it would affect them. I tried to leave my personal feelings out of the equation. I based most on my dealings with the EU direct over the years. Which at times was horrendous. If we went back to the original agreement of a trade only agreement Id accept that.......but nothing else........
Click to expand...

The U.K., as part of the EU, only voted against a handful of the laws passed by the EU court. I’ve read that these votes against (or vetoes) were primarily on issues such as money laundering and tax evasion, which tells me exactly where we are likely to be when “we” <ahem> make our own decisions. The EU court have brought in stringent environmental controls, workers rights, etc, but, it would appear, that “we” aren’t interested in those.
To say there’ll be “short term pain” is ridiculous. We have already seen the pain - weakness of sterling, business moving abroad, the wealthy taking their money elsewhere, NHS staff leaving in droves as they have no idea what is going to happen .....
Global business doesn’t like uncertainty. If those wonderful people who decided we had to get out of the EU had had a concrete plan and it had been seen through, then we might (a very slight chance) have managed. The fact that none of them had a clue, our government and “opposition” are whirling around aimlessly and we have less than 40 days to go, tells me that we are in for a complete ****ing ****storm of unparalleled severity.
If we crash out with no deal, expect sterling to slump further, interest rates to rise, unemployment to also rise and the country to fall into an economic slump for a minimum of 5-10 years. The EU don’t want to make us suffer - we’re quite capable of doing it ourselves. Rees-Mogg, Boris, Farage et al will have taken their money abroad, venture capitalists will be circling to snap up anything that’s left and we’ll get our jolly blue passports.
If, by some bribery and chicanery, May gets her deal through, then I fully expect Northern Ireland to descend into sectarian violence again, as the whole agreement will be nullified. We’ll still get as many illegal immigrants in as they’ll either come through there or France will ship them over to us and we’ll have no way of sending them back.

Those are some of the negatives I see - what, exactly, are the positives? I lived in Sweden before they joined the EU and I can tell you, it was 3rd world in terms of fruit, veg, meat, etc as they needed to import from anywhere other than the EU. If we end up like that, I’m seriously considering trying to get EU citizenship somehow - even if it means moving to an independent Scotland!
 
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fatletiss said:
“All Leaving the EU does...” Really? You’ve argued and argued the value of leaving, just in the belief that eventually our politicians may actually do their jobs. That’s what all this grief is about?

For all your months and years of posting article after article, telling us we’ll be better out, all your giving me is this.

I’m a bit shocked
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I have said "for months and months" (3 years?) exactly what you seem to be shocked by now. I have never made any bones about my disdain for this globalist order of multi layered technocrats.

Do you mean you are "still" shocked?
 
davecg69 said:
The U.K., as part of the EU, only voted against a handful of the laws passed by the EU court. I’ve read that these votes against (or vetoes) were primarily on issues such as money laundering and tax evasion, which tells me exactly where we are likely to be when “we” <ahem> make our own decisions. The EU court have brought in stringent environmental controls, workers rights, etc, but, it would appear, that “we” aren’t interested in those.
To say there’ll be “short term pain” is ridiculous. We have already seen the pain - weakness of sterling, business moving abroad, the wealthy taking their money elsewhere, NHS staff leaving in droves as they have no idea what is going to happen .....
Global business doesn’t like uncertainty. If those wonderful people who decided we had to get out of the EU had had a concrete plan and it had been seen through, then we might (a very slight chance) have managed. The fact that none of them had a clue, our government and “opposition” are whirling around aimlessly and we have less than 40 days to go, tells me that we are in for a complete ****ing ****storm of unparalleled severity.
If we crash out with no deal, expect sterling to slump further, interest rates to rise, unemployment to also rise and the country to fall into an economic slump for a minimum of 5-10 years. The EU don’t want to make us suffer - we’re quite capable of doing it ourselves. Rees-Mogg, Boris, Farage et al will have taken their money abroad, venture capitalists will be circling to snap up anything that’s left and we’ll get our jolly blue passports.
If, by some bribery and chicanery, May gets her deal through, then I fully expect Northern Ireland to descend into sectarian violence again, as the whole agreement will be nullified. We’ll still get as many illegal immigrants in as they’ll either come through there or France will ship them over to us and we’ll have no way of sending them back.

Those are some of the negatives I see - what, exactly, are the positives? I lived in Sweden before they joined the EU and I can tell you, it was 3rd world in terms of fruit, veg, meat, etc as they needed to import from anywhere other than the EU. If we end up like that, I’m seriously considering trying to get EU citizenship somehow - even if it means moving to an independent Scotland!
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"France will ship the over to us"

So in trying to tell us why we should stay in the EU you have no problem in admitting that one of the key players (France) ignores the EU rules and will ship illegal immigrants over to us.............like they have been doing to Italy?
 
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