Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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I have not the first clue about that .
I am just reporting what I am hearing from the majority of people at work , ok ?
As ever, the Brexit nutters are winning the propaganda war by painting this abortion of a deal as the EU's fault. The EU has given the UK about as much as it can given Theresa "Go home darkie" May's red lines. Those red lines defined the negotiation and what could be achieved. For example, by asserting there must be no freedom of movement, May decided there could be no Single Market.
It's her fault but the Brexit press is winning by painting this as the bad old EU bullying us.
Vin
Well that's what we're voting for. To be free of the control that lets us stop them doing that. The EU will be independent of us and can do what they like. They're acting in their interests just like we are
But the way I see it is if we have ruled out Mays deal by the time we have a referendum then there may be a lot of people near the middle that voted leave but rightfully fear a no deal.
But I had thought of your point myself and do agree it's a possibility.
It’s clear that May’s deal will be dead in the water after this evening, unless the amendment to allow the UK to unilaterally pull out of the backstop is passed. The problem is, the deal won’t then be legal in international law because the EU won’t agree to that part.
If the deal falls this evening then May has 3 days to come up with Plan B. She won’t offer a referendum, the only chance that has is if there is a General Election and Labour win. It’s Labour policy to have a referendum but the big question will be if it’s in the manifesto.
It won’t be. Even if it is it’ll be a pledge kicked down the road again! There’s no guarantee they’ll win anyway, let alone get a working majority. The present situation is a mess, I totally agree but having a general election or a referendum or both, is not the answer. The MP’s and the Government have to sort this out, that’s what they’re paid to do. It’s a faint hope but just maybe some common sense will come about here and in the EU and bring about a solution.
My "darkie" has not been told to go home and is well aware that all it requires is using an app on her phone and her NI number which is linked also to the benefits she has received whilst here. A one off payment and never have to worry again.
Comments like you have added there are as bad as you try and pin on the other side. Complaining about propaganda while everytime you prefix crash in front of Brexit and "go home darkie" slotted into your argument!!
Propaganda has been the main problem with remain and now with the "respect the result" second referendumers. Everything they talk about they slip in their catchphrases so that it is in the minds of people who then repeat it over and over again.
What a triumph......
.......and Jasper echoes a lot of what I hear. People are fed up of the drip, drip, drip on the telly, the attitude of the EU and the constant 2 years of "we respect but......" from our own EU supporting political class.
Every attempt is still made to make leavers look bad and remainers angels. It all just feeds and feeds into the argument yet those who are against leaving keep on feeding more all the time.
The main asset of the leave side was the remain side the first time round and they have just continued for 2 years feeding into that asset. So extension, referendum if necessary and bring it on. 60:40 and then it is put to bed. OUT.
No more moaning about Dover while up here ports are readying themselves and attracting more business from the ports down South. All we hear about is Dover yet Grimsby/Immingham is the biggest in tonnage and they are rubbing their hands at the thought of attracting more and "creating" much needed jobs. There is much more optimism up here while the South just moans about things hoping that nothing will change. We need change.
A
At last! I voted remain but understood if that was not the decision then we get on with what was voted for. I’m ashamed to see and hear so much misinformation put out as you say by the remain side. I appreciate the passion on both sides has overheated to an extent that neither is listening to the other, but that is no excuse for frightening people into submission to any particular view.
That's due to land transport issues making it more economical to go from more northerly ports. Thus the government handing out all the new contracts. But that's costing us money overall, not creating it
Oh dearie me. Your glorious leader has a long, long history of war on foreigners and I'm happy to point it out in a satirical way. I'm ever so glad that your wife will be allowed to pay to apply for permission to remain in the country she presumably calls home. It's a sign of how perverted your worldview is by your alt-rightery that you consider that in any way normal or acceptable. You're applauding the Tories for creating a situation where we treat your wife differently from mine because of the place they were born. What a ****ing triumph!
You've quoted a post in which I haven't mentioned the word Crash. I reserve that for the utter insanity of No Deal, something you appear to support.
Interestingly you deride the view of economic forecasts about Crash Brexit while you accept economic forecasts when you tell us recession's a-comin' (a transparent effort by the right to prepare us for the lie "It was coming anyway, nothing to to with losing all our trade deals"). Can I just check, is it forecasters telling you Immingham will grow? Are they the good ones, the ones you like? The bad ones (the majority), they're idiots. But the ones who say your local port will do well, they're the accurate ones. Like the ones who say trade will grow with Crash Brexit. They're the good ones. The ones (the vastly gigantic majority) who say it'll **** the economy? They're the ones to distrust. You're a walking case of confirmation bias. You choose expert opinions purely because they support your viewpoint. I don't. When 99 people are in step and one out, I make a decision based on that.
As for optimism, the best response I have is not mine and I paraphrase. "International law doesn't care about your desire, optimism or willingness to work together, pull together or unite. International Law just is."
Vin
while the South just moans about things hoping that nothing will change. We need change.
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We do. But I am terrified about the people steering us towards this change. Terrified!
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We do. But I am terrified about the people steering us towards this change. Terrified!
Anyway, my prediction for the days ahead;
May's deal gets voted down. She refuses to accept Parliament's decision, goes back to Brussels, gets ignored in front of the world's cameras, and comes back in three days to put the exact same deal before the house again. Repeat ad infinitum.
May's deal gets voted down. She refuses to accept Parliament's decision, goes back to Brussels, gets ignored in front of the world's cameras, and comes back in three days to put the exact same deal before the house again. Repeat ad infinitum.
I'm interested what "misinformation" is being put out by the Remain side? Is it the endless series of forecasts by economic experts saying that Crash Brexit/No Deal will be a disaster? I asked someone else on here where the "No Deal will be fine" forecasts were and they pointed me to the ones predicting catastrophe. When does informing people of what's expected to happen slip into being misinformation?
An interesting point. Economic forecasts for Crash Brexit are (roughly) an 8% decline in UK GDP. The 2008 great recession was a 2% drop. Even if they are out by a factor of four we're in for some lively times.
I suspect we may well end up with no deal, as we have an out of control government intent only on survival.
If so I hope I'm utterly wrong and that my business survives.
Vin
So it's a North vs South thing now is it? Is that your next plan - having split the UK from the EU, to put a border somewhere around the Watford Gap (having driven Scotland out of the Union first)?
It's all very tribal Imps, you were born in the wrong century I think. Somewhere in the 9th might have suited you.
And in lighter mood:
Vin
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Vin
I blame that bugger Alfred, who did he think he was unifying the country and all that nonsense?
Only the surviving onesHe had to settle for a deal with Denmark in the end
Problem is they've not been told what they're getting on with.
To stay on theme its like being told to build a boat.
Theyve then gone to the drawing board and realised they weren't told what type of boat to build.In fact, half the people wanted to boat to transport freight, the other half oil, but the shipbuilders are refusing to go back to the clients and ask so are instead building a yacht. A boat means a boat.