Off Topic Politics Thread

[Beddy]

So you’re dead against the UK having another referendum, but you’re in favour of NI having one?

I don't know why you think I'm against another referendum........I just don't think the other one can be ignored is all........All major parties are saying similar if not the exact words. It certainly isn't in our current constitution to be able to ignore a referendum I'm being told. The politicians will have to find a way round this to have another one. If they do then fine it won't change my mind of how I will vote I doubt, and probably not yours either.
But to do that the constitution has to be changed I'm being told. But if they do I would want clear specified majority vote just like the EU countries do. Is that so much to ask?

 

[VocalMinority]

I don't know why you think I'm against another referendum........I just don't think the other one can be ignored is all........All major parties are saying similar if not the exact words. It certainly isn't in our current constitution to be able to ignore a referendum I'm being told. The politicians will have to find a way round this to have another one. If they do then fine it won't change my mind of how I will vote I doubt, and probably not yours either.
But to do that the constitution has to be changed I'm being told. But if they do I would want clear specified majority vote just like the EU countries do. Is that so much to ask?

It doesn't, by law the referendum was advisory not binding.

 

[Beddy]

Have you looked at a map lately, and seen where Gibraltar is? If the Isle of Wight was Spanish, don’t you think the U.K. govt would be within its rights to be concerned about it’s future status?

Gibraltar voted 95% Remain btw.

Yes I do know where GIB is.....I was stationed there for two bloody years!! The island is not Spanish at all it is British, fully British but it does give the Spanish a lot of work. Yet the Spanish have been bullying the Island for decades even before we were in the bloody EU!!! Sorry I have lived there and have seen and experienced things there ...have you.....?

 

[Archers Road]

I don't know why you think I'm against another referendum........I just don't think the other one can be ignored is all........All major parties are saying similar if not the exact words. It certainly isn't in our current constitution to be able to ignore a referendum I'm being told. The politicians will have to find a way round this to have another one. If they do then fine it won't change my mind of how I will vote I doubt, and probably not yours either.
But to do that the constitution has to be changed I'm being told. But if they do I would want clear specified majority vote just like the EU countries do. Is that so much to ask?

We don't have a written constitution, and our legal system works on precedent. There is very little precedent with regard to referenda, so I really don't think there is a legal obligation on the govt to enact the outcome. There may be a moral obligation though, both Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn appear to agree with you on that.

I don't know what the answer is tbh. Cameron opened Pandora's box, and now we're going to pay for generations to come.

 

[Archers Road]

Yes I do know where GIB is.....I was stationed there for two bloody years!! The island is not Spanish at all it is British, fully British but it does give the Spanish a lot of work. Yet the Spanish have been bullying the Island for decades even before we were in the bloody EU!!! Sorry I have lived there and have seen and experienced things there ...have you.....?

I have been there, yes. It's neither British nor Spanish imo, regardless of the red phone boxes and baked beans in the shops.

It's only British because we took it by force 200 years ago. If the Spanish had taken the Isle of Man by force would that make it Spanish?

 

[Beddy]

We don't have a written constitution, and our legal system works on precedent. There is very little precedent with regard to referenda, so I really don't think there is a legal obligation on the govt to enact the outcome. There may be a moral obligation though, both Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn appear to agree with you on that.

I don't know what the answer is tbh. Cameron opened Pandora's box, and now we're going to pay for generations to come.

Oh man I have said he was an idiot for calling this referendum although in truth it was because I thought there would be an out and out victory for the Remain vote. I was surprised the vote went for out.
I am not of the opinion that we will pay for generations. Although granted things will be tough for a while.......The British are very a resilient people and will over come this should it come to that, quicker than you currently Think. In truth though nobody knows we can only guess. I understand your doubt though.......

 

[ChilcoSaint]

Yes I do know where GIB is.....I was stationed there for two bloody years!! The island is not Spanish at all it is British, fully British but it does give the Spanish a lot of work. Yet the Spanish have been bullying the Island for decades even before we were in the bloody EU!!! Sorry I have lived there and have seen and experienced things there ...have you.....?

Er, it’s not actually an island Beddy. It’s joined to the Spanish mainland. It reminded me when I went there of Britain in the 1950’s, with a massive Spanish presence.

 

[Beddy]

I have been there, yes. It's neither British nor Spanish imo, regardless of the red phone boxes and baked beans in the shops.

It's only British because we took it by force 200 years ago. If the Spanish had taken the Isle of Man by force would that make it Spanish?

Oh man....... so because we took the island that long ago its not British?? Bloody Heck that means Britain isn't Britain because we took the island back from the Anglos, Saxon and Jutes..............

 

[VocalMinority]

I have been there, yes. It's neither British nor Spanish imo, regardless of the red phone boxes and baked beans in the shops.

It's only British because we took it by force 200 years ago. If the Spanish had taken the Isle of Man by force would that make it Spanish?

My personal threshold for legitimisation is if nobody is left alive to remember the previous owner.

edit:Not in a massacre sense obviously

 

[Archers Road]

Oh man....... so because we took the island that long ago its not British?? Bloody Heck that means Britain isn't Britain because we took the island back from the Anglos, Saxon and Jutes..............

Yeah, not sure that really works. 200 years is not that long ago. England has been around for at least a thousand years, as has Scotland and Wales.

We gave Hong Kong back to China btw, and didn’t show much concern for the wishes of it’s people.

 

[VocalMinority]

Yeah, not sure that really works. 200 years is not that long ago. England has been around for at least a thousand years, as has Scotland and Wales.

We gave Hong Kong back to China btw, and didn’t show much concern for the wishes of it’s people.

Not by choice. We wouldn't have been able to stop China taking it by force and at least we got the locals some degree of democracy out if it.

 

[Archers Road]

Not by choice. We wouldn't have been able to stop China taking it by force and at least we got the locals some degree of democracy out if it.

Yeah, I agree it wasn’t through choice. We were forced to accept reality, just as we were when we surrendered an empire; and as we will be again, sooner than many people who have been sold a fantasy would like.

The irony here is that both Northern Ireland and Gibraltar were raised as potential issues during the referendum campaign, but both issues were shrugged off as a fabrication of “Project Fear”.

 

[San Tejón]

Er, it’s not actually an island Beddy. It’s joined to the Spanish mainland. It reminded me when I went there of Britain in the 1950’s, with a massive Spanish presence.

Thank goodness someone has pointed out that it isn’t an island. I thought I was going mad.
My mum was born and raised there, (Willis Road is where she lived) until the mid thirties, before coming to Southampton with her mum and sister.
My maternal granddad and an uncle are both buried in Gibraltar, as it happens.

 

[ImpSaint]

Have you looked at a map lately, and seen where Gibraltar is? If the Isle of Wight was Spanish, don’t you think the U.K. govt would be within its rights to be concerned about it’s future status?

Gibraltar voted 95% Remain btw.

Spain arguing the Gibraltar point is not credible unless they are considering handing cueta and Melilla back to Morocco.

 

[ImpSaint]

It doesn't, by law the referendum was advisory not binding.

Then those campaigning for Remain should not have said (nor printed in the official government pamphlet) that the result WILL be implemented. They should have used another wording like "might" or "will be considered."

 

[San Tejón]

This popped up on my Facebook page earlier.

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[SaintinSerbia]

will France want the Channel Islands? they are much closer to France than the uk

 

[San Tejón]

This brought a tear to my eye. How can any system be this cruel? How can anyone, with health conditions like hers, be asked to attend a work capability assessment? It’s just so wrong.

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[VocalMinority]

Then those campaigning for Remain should not have said (nor printed in the official government pamphlet) that the result WILL be implemented. They should have used another wording like "might" or "will be considered."

It was made quite clear it wasn't legally binding during the referendum as the leave campaign had picked up on it.

The result will be implemented though it's just a case of ensuring we get the result right because even now we don't know what we voted for and therefore what the result was.

...Unlike the 350m that was promised to the NHS which those campaigning for leave had promised as we now know we won't be implemented.

As far as I'm concerned the referendum promised to follow the will of the British public and we need another vote to ensure we do that.

 

[Beddy]

Yeah, not sure that really works. 200 years is not that long ago. England has been around for at least a thousand years, as has Scotland and Wales.

We gave Hong Kong back to China btw, and didn’t show much concern for the wishes of it’s people.

Yes we did but that was because we had such an agreement with the Chinese. They also would not extend our lease and the people knew that. We were bound to that agreement. I think the original agreement with the Chinese was for 100 years....or maybe 50 years something like that...........