I’m sorry if you think I’m ignoring all the view points as you put it.. I don’t consider I’m a winner or have any power. All I have been saying is that you just cannot ignore the original referendum result. Even the polititions are starting to say that too from all the major parties. The one thing we can agree on is that the whole thing is a downright mess and we as a country are weaker for it. All this squabbling among MPs, all the bullshit from all camps is it no wonder people are getting more and more fed up with the whole process. My view on democracy is no different to most as far as I know. Even when you have an election it takes time to change to the party you would prefer. it doesn’t happen over night. The party in power will carry out its manifesto. You don’t get a second chance to change an original vote because you think they are not right. It can only be changed by a general election. Which normally would take 4 or 5 years. Same with the referendum. Do you know of any other time that a referendum vote has been taken and then a second vote to check if the first one was the right choice? I certainly don’t although I’m no expert. I’m afraid the decision will have to made by the party in power. I just don’t see how they can have another vote on that clear issue in or out. There may be another way round it I don’t know. I’m being told though by people that know more about politics than me, that if there was such a vote there is no gaurentee that the remainers would get the result they want. That’s just my view too..... oh just for the record as someone is almost bound to quote polls. Polls have proved to be wrong so many times in the past I wouldn’t from experience take too much credence from them. Edit....that is polls in any direction for or against to be clear.
Yes. Irish voters rejected the Lisbon Treaty in June 2008 by 53% to 47% but were asked to vote again on the same thing in October 2009, when they approved it by 67% to 33%.
you say we shouldnt ignore the referendum result, then say the result is a mess but then go onto ignore the result instead of fixing it. and saying it is clear is just being willfully ignorant. its very clear that not everyone voted for the same brexit.... but thats what i mean by you ignoring the result of the referendum. can you give a reason why you dont get to change a vote ? changing it allows us to keep up date with changes in viewpoints of the population and adapt to changes in society and the world.. it also prevents what hitler did a using a broad pro german vote to mandate extreme actions like putting non german minorities into work camps or gas chambers which people probably werent voting for initially.. what negatives do you see? its hard to argue when you just say we cant do something (when you mean shouldnt) and dont give reasons why we shouldnt. you compared it to the election but you might have forgotten then theresa may called an early election because the initial vote didnt cover what she was doing and wanted to confirm the country still supported her actions.... the same way we need to check whether the country still support her actions here. she failed to get a majority and without the DUP the answer is no the country doesnt support her actions. so if you want a ge to overturn it, it already has. also as i keep saying other countries use a super majority for constitutional changes. its much harder to change a vote that got 55% for example as then you would need 55% the other way to change it back ( 5% shift needed not 10% as you suggested with your maths earlier) which ensures an actual decision was made that wont be instantly overturned. unfortnately we didnt have the forsight to put this in our constitution like other eu countries or the US have so we are in a situation where the vote can and should change back and forth due to changing public opinion. this would solve the mess with the scottish referendum, the EU referendum and the lisbon treaty while still allowing firm decisions like the Irish abortion decision to go ahead. so yes the refendum has been a mess and you shoudnt just ignore the mess because it got the result that you want. btw a referendum IS a poll. if you listen to politicians they use the term interchangeably. you should put as much distrust in this poll too. its not accurate to 2%
VM............A referendum is certainly not a poll...........You have to physically make a vote. A poll is where people stop you in the street and ask you how you are likely to vote...ETC. I agree it is a kind of poll but using that as an argument to justify the deficiencies of poll results in my view cannot be considered........ Question........ you said TM called an election to confirm her actions.........No she didn't............she called the election to make sure the people would be happy that the tory party were the right ones to see the job through. (and I did mention the Election) There is a difference although I agree we are both splitting hairs here (and just so you understand I didn't think they were the right ones to see this through actually ?) I actually agree about the Super majority.......I said at the time this should have been called for!! (my earlier remark about the voting majority. Wasn't the vote something like 52% for and 48% against as near as dam it? Isn't that a 4% majority as near as dam it?) As a matter of interest......just taking out the Scottish vote and the NI vote the English vote was a very high percentage against...... (although I'm not suggesting we should ignore them) I don't recall saying anything about a 10% majority turn around or anything like it. On the % majority side of things you have a very good point as I said previously. Maybe the politicians will wake up and put that quickly into the constitution. Then just maybe another vote can be called for, maybe that is the way to go to "fix it" as you call it........never gave that a thought. I agree about the mess it would have clearly stopped all this bullshit that is going around. I've never Said I'm against another Referendum.........Just that the original cannot and should not be ignored just because things have got tough. Nothing to do with the fact I want to be out........The politicians will have to find a way around this. Even the Labour Party are currently saying that at this time another referendum is not on the cards. I have agreed the referendum is a mess but it has mainly been caused by the infighting of the tories. They in my view are Labour have not helped in any way. It is strange then that the Tories are still in the lead on the recent sceptical polls that a lot of you rely on. Does that mean the country is behind TM....Tell you what Im totally confused and fed up to the bone with whole scenario. Thanks Chilcs...........I was meaning just England..........Rightly or wrongly I consider NI and Scotland separate units...........Although granted still part of the UK.
We don’t have referenda or General Elections just in England Beddy. It’s because we are the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, ever since 1921 when we dropped the South of Ireland. The referendum I was referring to was in the Republic of Ireland. As you can see, in that country they are allowed to change their minds when the facts become clearer, and an overwhelming majority did change their minds.
Thanks Chilcs....I except what you are saying. However my understanding was the referendum was just held in NI. It didn't include England did it? Was it not a referendum and not a general election or even a local election? So my understanding of that referendum was it was not a national one and I still maintain that of all the National referendums held none have not been acted on. VM made a good point though to be fair.....it is a pity that it is not in our constitution that when Referendums are held for it to be carried a certain % vote majority. I think that will be added post haste and I would welcome that it certainly would stop this turmoil......or would it??
Gibraltar has always been a thorn in Spains eyes as previously mentioned..........They just want to be able to bully Gibraltar........that is the kind of tactics I am so against and yes I call it bullying.!!
It wasn’t in NI, it was in the Republic of Ireland, which is the Southern part of Ireland and isn’t part of the UK. It was a national referendum which included the whole of the Republic of Ireland. I do agree about the Supermajority though.
An interesting point guys id like to suggest...........Could someone in the UK go to the European court and appeal the last referendum as technically it breaks EU's rule?? As we are still part of them rules or doesn't that rule include us?? (Oh for the record I am not suggesting we go that way it is a genuine question)
Another Point about NI The DUP are not the only party in NI although my understanding is they have the majority. May be NI should have a single referendum to decide on whether the DUP are right or out of step with the final decision on the boarder. Would that make sense perhaps? Can that actually happen? Not sure it can but some of you are more clued than I about these situations.
Not sure about EU laws, but Vote Leave broke UK laws by overspending. That would do by itself as a reason to rerun the referendum, if there weren’t plenty of others!
Take 2% off leave put it on remain and you make the 4% difference so it's a 2% swing. And as I keep saying you're the one willfully ignoring the result. You still didn't providing any reason why we can't keep voting which seems to be core to your argument or any way of fixing the issues brought up by it. Supermajority was to prevent it happening in the first place. It already had and I don't believe in changing the rules half way. My way if fixing it is a 3 way AV vote taking into acount all 3 sides opinions that the first referendum failed to do but the result showed us needed to be done.
Have you looked at a map lately, and seen where Gibraltar is? If the Isle of Wight was Spanish, don’t you think the U.K. govt would be within its rights to be concerned about it’s future status? Gibraltar voted 95% Remain btw.
