Off Topic Politics Thread

[Paddy Podped]

I am struggling to get my head round the Labour fallout over the Israel-Gaza position.
I can understand individuals have different views to that stated publicly by their leader. But my overriding feeling is , at this point, why does it matter what Labour’s position on a ceasefire is?

Israel are hardly going to listen to what the UK opposition are saying. They’ll barely care what the official UK position on a ceasefire is.

So apart from a bit of internal jostling and power shifting, which in a strong pre-election position seems counter-productive…. Can anyone help explain to me what is going on here!

(Sorry if this is ignorant…. I follow the general goings on in politics but not the intricacies that others on here do)

 

[tomw24]

Jesus Christ this is why I don't vote Labour. This nonsense hardly gives the voters the message that they are a united party. In fact it's the opposite! Our politicians seem to be either corrupt or incompetent. Give me strength.

 

[Shandy_top_89]

I don't think anyone comes out of it looking good tbh.

The SNP transparently manipulating a tragedy for political points (there is no reason why they couldn't have also voted for Labour's pause motion alongside the ceasefire motion if they were serious about wanting to improve the situation).

Labour having over a quarter of the PLP rebel over a symbolic gesture.

(I know people will joke that its typical of them) but the Lib Dems put forward the only amendment actually focusing on UK domestic issues and Labour and the SNP ignored it while focusing all of their energy on another country.

All this protecting the Conservative Party on the day that they raged against human rights having spunked over £100m of taxpayers money on a cynical PR exercise.

The one positive is that the nature of resignations has been very cordial and is basically 'I fully support the party on all but this one issue', so as long as there is no overreaction from Starmer, this should be able to move past this.

This by the way is not to downplay the seriousness of the situation in Israel and Gaza, but we should not be torching our own house over it.

 

[Saintjoey]

I am struggling to get my head round the Labour fallout over the Israel-Gaza position.
I can understand individuals have different views to that stated publicly by their leader. But my overriding feeling is , at this point, why does it matter what Labour’s position on a ceasefire is?

Israel are hardly going to listen to what the UK opposition are saying. They’ll barely care what the official UK position on a ceasefire is.

So apart from a bit of internal jostling and power shifting, which in a strong pre-election position seems counter-productive…. Can anyone help explain to me what is going on here!

(Sorry if this is ignorant…. I follow the general goings on in politics but not the intricacies that others on here do)

I agree it seems utterly farcical. I suppose the reason it is significant is because this is the Prime Minister in waiting and people want to see how he leads and whether he can have the backbone required to do so effectively.

I think the nature of the letters (i.e. generally complimentary about him, just citing a very specific difference in view on this one matter) mean that this isn't such a big deal for him as the media are making out. I think he'll be relatively pleased.

 

[shoot_spiderman]

I am struggling to get my head round the Labour fallout over the Israel-Gaza position.
I can understand individuals have different views to that stated publicly by their leader. But my overriding feeling is , at this point, why does it matter what Labour’s position on a ceasefire is?

Israel are hardly going to listen to what the UK opposition are saying. They’ll barely care what the official UK position on a ceasefire is.

So apart from a bit of internal jostling and power shifting, which in a strong pre-election position seems counter-productive…. Can anyone help explain to me what is going on here!

(Sorry if this is ignorant…. I follow the general goings on in politics but not the intricacies that others on here do)

I haven’t checked where the ‘rebels’ are representing but having a large muslim minority in the constituency may have influenced some

 

[shoot_spiderman]

Jesus Christ this is why I don't vote Labour. This nonsense hardly gives the voters the message that they are a united party. In fact it's the opposite! Our politicians seem to be either corrupt or incompetent. Give me strength.

Confirmation bias Tom?
Do you want politicians to back their principles or fleece the system?
This isn’t incompetent, although it may look unwise. Note they all complimented Starmer and only cited this specific issue

They all want de-escalation and a cease fire ultimately, they are arguing about the strategy to get there

 

[Osvaldorama]

I am struggling to get my head round the Labour fallout over the Israel-Gaza position.
I can understand individuals have different views to that stated publicly by their leader. But my overriding feeling is , at this point, why does it matter what Labour’s position on a ceasefire is?

Israel are hardly going to listen to what the UK opposition are saying. They’ll barely care what the official UK position on a ceasefire is.

So apart from a bit of internal jostling and power shifting, which in a strong pre-election position seems counter-productive…. Can anyone help explain to me what is going on here!

(Sorry if this is ignorant…. I follow the general goings on in politics but not the intricacies that others on here do)

Couldn’t agree more, how about they all focus on the **** going on in this country instead of worrying about foreign border disputes.

Bunch of utter pricks.

As usual the left only care about virtue signalling instead of doing anything remotely useful

 

[tomw24]

Confirmation bias Tom?
Do you want politicians to back their principles or fleece the system?
This isn’t incompetent, although it may look unwise. Note they all complimented Starmer and only cited this specific issue

They all want de-escalation and a cease fire ultimately, they are arguing about the strategy to get there

The vote was a complete waste of time. No one, least of all Israel or Hamas, cares what the leader of the UK opposition thinks. The next general election isn't due for over a year. The last thing Starmer should be doing is acting like he's already got the keys to No.10 (even if that's the case). All he needs to do is bide his time, keep the pressure on Sunak. Leave the war in Ukraine, war in Gaza etc to the government.

 

[StJabbo1]

I don't like the whipping system and am a big supporter of electoral reform. Dissent in the manner it was done is healthy and should be encouraged not seen as damage to their election chances.

 

[......loading......]

Couldn’t agree more, how about they all focus on the **** going on in this country instead of worrying about foreign border disputes.

Bunch of utter pricks.

As usual the left only care about virtue signalling instead of doing anything remotely useful

And what exactly are the right doing that is remotely useful?

These MPs are not stopping work. They are not refusing to contribute to the political process. They are making a point in the only way they can about an issue that is important to many of their constituents. This is exactly their job and exactly what they are meant to do.

You rant and rave about people getting fixated on things abroad while paying undue interest in the US political system. You may not have noticed this, but the situation in Gaza, in that tiny spot on the map, is currently the central focus of global political tensions. I am glad you are not my MP, bud, as you seem to believe a political representative can only be active in one issue at once. These guys are still doing their daily duties and dealing with internal issues. This isn't a non-issue like that damn laptop that you have posted about 10,000 times. This is the central issue in global politics at this moment.

I can't say it enough. This issue has global ramifications. It has had global ramifications since 1948 and those ramifications are just getting bigger. I don't want an MP who says BRITAIN FIRST and then sticks his head in the sand and ignores Britain's role in the world.

I am not fan of Starmer. The guys is a closet Tory. But the fact his MPs are able to respectfully disagree and resign in protest should be lauded. Have you seen the bullying tactics of BJ and co over the last ten years?

I would rather a conscious objector than a jabbering patriot any day.

 

[......loading......]

The vote was a complete waste of time. No one, least of all Israel or Hamas, cares what the leader of the UK opposition thinks. The next general election isn't due for over a year. The last thing Starmer should be doing is acting like he's already got the keys to No.10 (even if that's the case). All he needs to do is bide his time, keep the pressure on Sunak. Leave the war in Ukraine, war in Gaza etc to the government.

Tom, in the last month there have been 32 votes in the House of commons. FOUR of them have been about amendments to the King's speech. They have one vote a day and I don't think voting on global politics is really a waste of time in comparison to some of the tiny things that get argued every day. Don't get sucked in by the press - who are desperate to blow up any perceived weakness in the left. Voting on issues is an every day occurrence in parliament.

 

[St. Luigi Scrosoppi]

Couldn’t agree more, how about they all focus on the **** going on in this country instead of worrying about foreign border disputes.

Bunch of utter pricks.

As usual the left only care about virtue signalling instead of doing anything remotely useful

Don't worry. After the next GE they will have all the time they need to do something useful. Until then we are all in the hands of the most corrupt, incompetent and divisive bunch of utter pricks that have ever governed this country. If you really mean it when you say that you would like the Labour party to do something useful all you need to do is vote for them at the next GE.

 

[Archers Road]

Don't worry. After the next GE they will have all the time they need to do something useful. Until then we are all in the hands of the most corrupt, incompetent and divisive bunch of utter pricks that have ever governed this country. If you really mean it when you say that you would like the Labour party to do something useful all you need to do is vote for them at the next GE.

It's apparently the opposition's fault the country is in a mess; as it's Remainers fault Brexit is a disaster.

 

[Osvaldorama]

And what exactly are the right doing that is remotely useful?

These MPs are not stopping work. They are not refusing to contribute to the political process. They are making a point in the only way they can about an issue that is important to many of their constituents. This is exactly their job and exactly what they are meant to do.

You rant and rave about people getting fixated on things abroad while paying undue interest in the US political system. You may not have noticed this, but the situation in Gaza, in that tiny spot on the map, is currently the central focus of global political tensions. I am glad you are not my MP, bud, as you seem to believe a political representative can only be active in one issue at once. These guys are still doing their daily duties and dealing with internal issues. This isn't a non-issue like that damn laptop that you have posted about 10,000 times. This is the central issue in global politics at this moment.

I can't say it enough. This issue has global ramifications. It has had global ramifications since 1948 and those ramifications are just getting bigger. I don't want an MP who says BRITAIN FIRST and then sticks his head in the sand and ignores Britain's role in the world.

I am not fan of Starmer. The guys is a closet Tory. But the fact his MPs are able to respectfully disagree and resign in protest should be lauded. Have you seen the bullying tactics of BJ and co over the last ten years?

I would rather a conscious objector than a jabbering patriot any day.

I agree. The right are no better. They just weren’t being mentioned in that post.

I don’t think they need to focus on one issue at a time. I would like them to focus on ANY of the issues we are seeing.

The problem is they aren’t doing any of their duties over here. Neither party. That’s my point.

Gaza is a non-issue here. Our politicians are wasting their time talking about it.

And I have explained, interest in the American political system is important because they are the global reserve currency and as such have a big say over what happens in the rest of the world. Failure to understand this leaves you failing to understand global politics. Also I haven’t posted on that topic for at least a month so I have no idea why you’re bringing that up

 

[tomw24]

Tom, in the last month there have been 32 votes in the House of commons. FOUR of them have been about amendments to the King's speech. They have one vote a day and I don't think voting on global politics is really a waste of time in comparison to some of the tiny things that get argued every day. Don't get sucked in by the press - who are desperate to blow up any perceived weakness in the left. Voting on issues is an every day occurrence in parliament.

Which just reinforces my view that I'm pretty much ready to give up on politicians altogether. I mean, who gives a flying **** about the King's speech for ****s sake.

 

[......loading......]

Which just reinforces my view that I'm pretty much ready to give up on politicians altogether.

Mate, a lot of pedestrian stuff goes on. These people are managing the tiny things, the big things, the huge things. Some of it is practical and some is ideological. It is the nature of politics.

 

[sotonsaint]

Which just reinforces my view that I'm pretty much ready to give up on politicians altogether. I mean, who gives a flying **** about the King's speech for ****s sake.

Will never understand why people give a **** about stuff they have no control over and never will do. Bizarre!

 

[Archers Road]

Will never understand why people give a **** about stuff they have no control over and never will do. Bizarre!

We have no control over Saints, but we still care what happens.

 

[sotonsaint]

We have no control over Saints, but we still care what happens.

True, but I'm not under the illusion that my views or opinions will dictate how the team plays.

 

[St. Luigi Scrosoppi]

Will never understand why people give a **** about stuff they have no control over and never will do. Bizarre!

This applies to almost everything posted on here about Saints