But this is the politics thread, where one doesn't let the facts get in the way of a good government bashing. I dont often venture here, as I'm not arsed either way but reading a number of pages at random on here makes me wonder about all the vitriol (not aimed at you FLT in any way btw, just a general observation): a. Is it only Labour supporters who post, and why as given this thread is to discuss politics, you lot are failing as there isn't discussion, just insults generally, many personal b. Are there any Conservative supporters who slag the government off c. If Labour were in, would the same people moan about them d. If yes to c. what's the point of it all e. Wheres Maggie when you need her? She would sort most of you out, especially that miserable old socialist who pops up on here sometimes to get cheap head Like I've said many times I dont follow politics, reading through here it is clear why, very confusing and overtly aggressive, must be what it's like in parliament, bit of a boys club (oh the irony)! I'll be back next year to see how this thread has evolved.
Think you're reading far too much into what basically amounts to several pages of people - quite justifiably imo - saying "**** Boris". The man really is a Category A bell-end, something that needs pointing out as frequently as possible.
You may be right, but they way it looks is going backwards or forwards, you could replace the word Boris with any incumbent. I hope I’m wrong, as many on here seem far too intelligent for that. Although, going back, it wasn’t just Boris, but the entire Government, with any amount of info seemingly inflammatory. As I said, I rarely come here, and this is the main reason why. I’m sure if I read it to a deeper level, maybe i would see it differently.
The entire Parliamentary Tory Party in fact, as any Conservatives who questioned the Johnson approach were expelled from the party last year. Of course you can think what you like, but if you don't look at the fat idiot and see that everything he touches breaks down, you really do need to look deeper into it. Edit: I'm not a paid-up Labour supporter, and it's pointless voting for them around here anyway, but at PMQ's on Wednesday there was only one person who looked capable of leading the country out of the mess it's in, and it wasn't Boris Johnson.
Yeah, it does seem to be a strange way of running things, considering general business has evolved to surround itself with exceptional people who can achieve, for a common goal. I think my point is I gave up on politics when i was 18, as i always thought it was largely the same, just a different colour team kit. Over the following years, that has largely been the case. I think a thorough review into how politics is delivered and governed is far more essential than a change it kit colour, and will deliver far better results in the long run. Although my query on which side largely post on here isn’t answered, but i expect it is mainly reds.
Hm. My experience of business was that, far from being run by exceptional people, most were presided over by idiots, and tended to survive or even flourish pretty much by accident. A reading of history suggests this is equally true of generals in war time, and probably just about every other field of human endeavour also. The exceptional people are exactly that, exceptional, and tend to ruffle far too many feathers to ever find themselves in positions of authority for long.
Well that depends on the industry you work in perhaps. Ive seen a massive change in this over the last 5-10 years, miles more progressive. And feather rufflers - they are doing ok and fairly senior.
Don't bother. You have nothing of interest to say other than cheap personal insults that you accuse others of.
I think the main issue is that those that can do exceptional things do just that. Those that can’t lead.
Leadership requires a very rare set of skills, which very few leaders appear to possess. You do get the odd good one. Like Ralph, for example.
Point a I am sure there are a few Tory voters on here. Perhaps the question posed should have been, why don’t they declare their support for the lying party? Point b. I have posted about this before. Tory voters seldom seem to criticise their own government, often because they are following the party line of pretending everything is okay and if all else fails, blame someone else. As things stand, the current government is probably the least empathetic group of people we have ever had in charge, who are constantly making mistakes and are constantly lying, and being found out. And still their voters give them an easy ride. Point c. There have been several posts, in the past, criticising Labour for many, many things, particularly in the way they allowed the general election to take place, when it was a nailed on certainty that the “Get Brexit Done” slogan would swing votes. So, based on that, yes I think Labour supporters would “moan” if they felt that the leadership was making errors. Point d. The point is accountability. It’s because of the Tory voters failing to hold their party to account that Johnson et al believe know that they can get away with the lies and deceit. Point e. If you think Thatcher is the answer, then wow, just wow. And regards your comment “especially that miserable old socialist who pops up on here sometimes to get cheap head“. Re-read your own point a in which you accuse people of making personal insults, and think whether or not you should include yourself as one of them.
I think what you say is probably correct to a point, but I also think the views are justified. Overall; - There is open corruption going on. - Brexit is the Governments flagship policy and it is a ****show. It has also distracted the Government at a time when they should be focusing all of their effort on the Covid response. - The Government are enacting a hardline version of their manifesto without majority public support. (This is an issue with our electoral system to be fair). - Covid response has been poor in comparison to similar countries. - The Government has botched the grading process for all students in England, negatively impacting them and their parents at a critical time in their lives. Despite having prior knowledge of the problem after Scotland’s Government had to u-turn on the same issue. - ‘Like Corbyn could have done better’ isn’t a valid retort because there is no evidence on whether he would have done better or worse, this is the Government we have and they have done a poor job and deserve scrutiny. - Thatcher for her faults was competent and had a plan. Johnson is not and does not. Cummings is only interested in Brexit and he is leading policy. Simply put the Government are doing a bad job and the majority of the public doesn’t support them, so people will call them out on it.
Hilarious Badger! I knew someone would bite about Maggie. I do kind of feel your view is a little one sided view btw! There is a miserable old socialist on here, that isn’t an insult, it is an observation, but just like you say the blues are, you twist the point to make something stick. This is my point entirely, that people aren’t so different where politics come to mind, and the behaviours have very thin lines that separate things. I’m not trying to have a dig with you btw, i value your input and point of view, but thought i may get a more balanced view rather than the norm of point scoring against the other sides as i thought i would try to learn more about politics and unfortunately your post sums up why i generally stay away from it. Anyhow, i think i will leave this one alone - hope all is well with you and Mrs B - all the best
I do agree with many of your points and thanks for taking the time to reply to me. I think the Covid response could have been better, pretty much the same for most countries in Eu apart from Germany. I think some countries outright lied about their infections and deaths, Spain being one of them. All governments will make mistakes, like the exams debacle, and they have tried to correct it straight away. I mean that isn’t ideal, but they tried to do something about it in quick time. I agree with Maggie, I actually admire her despite being party agnostic, i agree she had a plan and agree Boris isn’t right for our country. Right now we need a leader to transition us, i can only think of Churchill and Thatcher that could do that, I am sure there are many other Labour leaders that could also. About Corbin doing better, i agree no one knows, and my point was about would peopl moan no matter who was in charge, such as going to War with Iraq and stuff - my point is if something is wrong, it is wrong, not trying to cover something up out of misplaced loyalty to a particular party. It’s a bit like Saints, for many years we have been ****, for some years we’ve been great, and for some of these years we had utter incompetence in the running of the club. And as supporters, we told the club when stuff happened that wasn’t good, as we did when it was bad. Politics divides people so much that to me, they appear blinded by the good and bad, on both sides, if that make sense!
A large amount of that is fair, being honest I am more of a Lib Dem / Labour guy but see incompetence all around. IMO although I agreed more with Swinson and Corbyn’s views I thought they couldn’t have done a worse job in the election, they literally fell over themselves to hand it to Johnson (and Sturgeon) on a plate. I think Starmer and Davey are shrewder operators and it will be interesting to see where the country is by the next election, even if i am feeling really pessimistic about it (which ties neatly into your Saints analogy, as that’s how I feel at the start of most seasons!). I am still of the view that Labour and the Lib Dem’s need a significant electoral pact to oust the Conservatives, no matter where the polls are. Labour have lost the Geography to win under FPTP and the Lib Dem’s are doomed to finishing second in all of their targets while Labour have a paper candidate stealing 5000ish votes off of them everywhere.
One point Billy makes is true here. This is a very strong labour supporting thread. Always has been. Like Billy, I don’t like politics; it is so divisive and hateful. I try to pay some sort of interest simply because the people involved professionally (there’s an oxymoron) are responsible partly for all of our futures. I am not a “party man” never have been and I particularly don’t like the “I’ll always vote ....” approach because that makes no sense to me. I vote for who I think effects me locally, nationally, short term, long term, or even tactically if I feel I need to protest vote. I never vote because that’s my party. I don’t like that parties today just seem to refuse to work together. I was brought up in a strong conservative town with conservative parents who read the Daily Mail and the Sunday Express. Going into my late teens that town swung from Conservative to Lib Dem and back a few times. My Dad votes UKIP now (I have a Jamaican wife and he had a Russian girlfriend for a few years and moaned when it was difficult for her to get a visa to visit - I kid you not!) I have voted at most elections when I can, missed a few in younger years. I don’t recall voting Labour, but I possibly got swept along with the cheesey Blair smiles when I was younger (I can’t remember), mostly voted Conservative when younger (parents influence no doubt); occasionally voted Lib Dem and often voted independent. I am still gob-smacked that the people of this country voted for Brexit and then ended up with Boris as our Prime Minister, as I just find his behaviour and mannerisms unbecoming. I despair for my kids future and I still find it incredible that so many masses of our population get suckered in by the media sound bites and we have a system that allows a huge number of people to vote and decide on things that are so important when they don’t really know what or why they are voting for or about. I don’t know the answers or the solutions though. I do know that politics is a necessary evil, but it is an evil.
