Off Topic Paris Attacks !

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UnitedinRed said:
Oh. Really.

Let's see shall we.

First of all, Zakat is a donation. It is not a tax. Jews and Christians were subject to a poll tax and a head tax under Muslim rule.

Jews were permitted, as long as they toed the line. For example, when burying their dead, they were permitted to have a funeral as long as the local Muslims didn't hear their grief. Same with Christians. Both were made to wear identifying clothing or badges (blue for Christians, yellow for Jews) so the Muslim rulers could spot them easily. When bathing, Jews had to wear a chain around their neck so to appear different from the superior muslims.

The myth that Jews thrived under Islamic rule is down to a few individual success stories. Many many more lived lives under a dictatorship.

Jews did have their own laws, however their laws were overruled, without exception by Islamic law. So they didn't really have any laws as such.

Jews and other faiths were at the whim of whoever was in charge of their region and the attitudes of the Muslim residents. Attitudes which were often negative. Yes, a handful thrived and gained positions of power, even within Islamic rule but most were peasants living under oppression.

Next time you try and do a rebuttal, do t use charitable donations, this was not forced like the tax levied on non Muslims. Failure to pay Jizya removed any protection afforded to the non Muslims.

Sounds like the Mafia, don't you think?
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Again your knowledge is limited:
First you say during the time of Muhammed (pbuh) then you say who ever is in charge....you keep changing your tactic to prove your point and again you are wrong.

Zakat - is Compulsory
Zakat is the compulsory giving of a set proportion of one's wealth to charity. It is regarded as a type of worship and of self-purification. Zakat is the third Pillar of Islam.
Zakat does not refer to charitable gifts given out of kindness or generosity, but to the systematic giving of 2.5% of one's wealth each year to benefit the poor.

Don't just take my word for it, see the link below its not a Muslim source:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/practices/zakat.shtml

Sadaqah - is voluntary charity
 
Wish I was in MILK said:
Non Muslims paid more than Muslims for sure. Its why, prior to 20th century, they had all left for Europe, or stayed and converted (Palestinians).

However, when you compare it to how Europe has handled people of different religions throughout most of history. Islamic nations have traditionally been MUCH more tolerant of other religions than European nations have.
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Not true again. Nether were tolerant at all. Europe or the middle east.

There is nothing tolerant about a second class system where the person is considered sub human. Which is what both Christian Europe and Islamic middle east/Africa did.

Tolerant ffs. You can still get killed for being gay in both religions. Neither knows a bloody thing about tolerance yet demand tolerance for themselves. No.

Anything you choose should not receive the same protection as those things we cannot choose. Like race, sex, sexual preference, nationality, age etc.
 
UnitedinRed said:
Not true again. Nether were tolerant at all. Europe or the middle east.

There is nothing tolerant about a second class system where the person is considered sub human. Which is what both Christian Europe and Islamic middle east/Africa did.

Tolerant ffs. You can still get killed for being gay in both religions. Neither knows a bloody thing about tolerance yet demand tolerance for themselves. No.

Anything you choose should not receive the same protection as those things we cannot choose. Like race, sex, sexual preference, nationality, age etc.
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If I had to choose between extra taxes or tortured and killed... I would choose extra taxes.
 
highburyal said:
Again your knowledge is limited:
First you say during the time of Muhammed (pbuh) then you say who ever is in charge....you keep changing your tactic to prove your point and again you are wrong.

Zakat - is Compulsory
Zakat is the compulsory giving of a set proportion of one's wealth to charity. It is regarded as a type of worship and of self-purification. Zakat is the third Pillar of Islam.
Zakat does not refer to charitable gifts given out of kindness or generosity, but to the systematic giving of 2.5% of one's wealth each year to benefit the poor.

Don't just take my word for it, see the link below its not a Muslim source:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/practices/zakat.shtml

Sadaqah - is voluntary charity
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Yes, its a charity donation to the faith. Some christian sects also do it. They don't pretend its a tax though. Justbuse emotional blackmail to get the coin.

And Muhammed was the first, it didn't end with him. He just started this trend. Centuries later the modern Jewish conspiracies we see today were coined, within the Islamic world, as to discredit the Jewish faith more.
 
Wish I was in MILK said:
If I had to choose between extra taxes or tortured and killed... I would choose extra taxes.
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Its not really a choice is it? And those taxes happen to be 50%. You're already so poor that you can barely survive.

The result each time is the same for the vast majority. Death, one just costs a lot more and takes a while longer. As long as you paid of course.

Neither was or is acceptable.
 
UnitedinRed said:
Its not really a choice is it? And those taxes happen to be 50%. You're already so poor that you can barely survive.

The result each time is the same for the vast majority. Death, one just costs a lot more and takes a while longer. As long as you paid of course.

Neither was or is acceptable.
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Neither is acceptable no... But torture and death is worse than higher taxes. It's a matter of degrees.



Belonging to the non-ruling faith has sucked no matter where you are throughout history anywhere in the world.

Even atheism when it was the state "religion" has been brutal and horrible.

Comparatively though, Islamic nations have been the more tolerant. Obviously that isn't true the last 70 years... But historically it is true.

The only fair system is when government butts-out of religion 100%.
 
Wish I was in MILK said:
Neither is acceptable no... But torture and death is worse than higher taxes. It's a matter of degrees.



Belonging to the non-ruling faith has sucked no matter where you are throughout history anywhere in the world.

Even atheism when it was the state "religion" has been brutal and horrible.

Comparatively though, Islamic nations have been the more tolerant. Obviously that isn't true the last 70 years... But historically it is true.

The only fair system is when government butts-out of religion 100%.
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That rarely happens though, as people can't respect secularism and try to enforce their morality on everyone constantly.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
That rarely happens though, as people can't respect secularism and try to enforce their morality on everyone constantly.
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Very true. Take the US for example. Let it slip on a job interview you're atheist and you likely won't get the job.

(according to studies atheists are discriminated against more so than any race, religion, or sexual orientation by emoyers)

Despite strict separation of church and state... Not a week goes by without someone in one state or another trying to get legislation passed based on some part of the bible or another.

Even when laws don't go against you, society does.
 
Wish I was in MILK said:
Neither is acceptable no... But torture and death is worse than higher taxes. It's a matter of degrees.



Belonging to the non-ruling faith has sucked no matter where you are throughout history anywhere in the world.

Even atheism when it was the state "religion" has been brutal and horrible.

Comparatively though, Islamic nations have been the more tolerant. Obviously that isn't true the last 70 years... But historically it is true.

The only fair system is when government butts-out of religion 100%.
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You have the story from the side of the oppressors not the oppressed. The oppressed didn't think it was good at all, marginalised and subjected to every kind of discrimination imaginable.

As I said, it was similar to living in Nazi Germany before Hitler started killing them by the million.
 
Wish I was in MILK said:
Very true. Take the US for example. Let it slip on a job interview you're atheist and you likely won't get the job.

(according to studies atheists are discriminated against more so than any race, religion, or sexual orientation by emoyers)

Despite strict separation of church and state... Not a week goes by without someone in one state or another trying to get legislation passed based on some part of the bible or another.

Even when laws don't go against you, society does.
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Don't think that's exclusive to the US at all.
 
Wish I was in MILK said:
Very true. Take the US for example. Let it slip on a job interview you're atheist and you likely won't get the job.

(according to studies atheists are discriminated against more so than any race, religion, or sexual orientation by emoyers)

Despite strict separation of church and state... Not a week goes by without someone in one state or another trying to get legislation passed based on some part of the bible or another.

Even when laws don't go against you, society does.
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I don't mind idiots trying to get their ridiculous legislation passed, but the fact that it actually does pass is ridiculous.
They bang on about the constitution constantly and then ignore it when it doesn't suit them.

It's ok though, there's a group out there protecting the persecuted and preventing religious attacks:
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<laugh>
 
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UnitedinRed said:
You have the story from the side of the oppressors not the oppressed. The oppressed didn't think it was good at all, marginalised and subjected to every kind of discrimination imaginable.

As I said, it was similar to living in Nazi Germany before Hitler started killing them by the million.
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I grew up in England. University in the US. I learned world history from a western perspective from western sources. That's hardly hearing it from the oppressor.

You're not going to convince me that paying extra taxes is worse than torture and murder.
 
Wish I was in MILK said:
I grew up in England. University in the US. I learned world history from a western perspective from western sources. That's hardly hearing it from the oppressor.

You're not going to convince me that paying extra taxes is worse than torture and murder.
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You're making it black and white when its anything but.

Jews were slaughter under Islamic law. This isn't western literature, this is Jewish literature from the times when they were oppressed by a ruthless empire. That empire was Islam.

Here's a tip, don't believe anything a Muslim or Christian says about Jews and Jewish history. There own beliefs teach them that Jews are evil people and just about falls short of justifying their slaughter.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
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Money > Constitution.
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That and the "pledge of allegiance." Pledge of allegiance states "one nation under God".

It's pretty creepy, feels like it belongs in North Korea more so than a western democracy . Every morning, in every school in the US, every child is required to stand up and pledge blind allegiance to the flag and God.

It's creepy to witness... Seems more communist or totalitarian in nature. (and in fact communists were the creators of the pledge). They added the bit about God in during the 50s in rebellion of the communist countries that were declared atheist.
 
luvgonzo said:
I am, seems it also applies to non-believers and complete bellends.
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You know luv, I wish people of today we're around when this religious stuff took hold. It wouldn't have stood a chance. Unfortunately religion took hold centuries ago and is now protected in the same way we protect those groups persecuted by religions over and over again.
 
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