Off Topic Paris Attacks !

[UnitedinRed]

And yet we have billions who can marry who they want, dont stone anyone, and dont chop off people's hands.

Let me listen to stories of western utopia. Who I can rob, who I can cheat on, who I can step on to get a promotion and who I can bomb to oblivion and nuke to kingdom come.

Ofcourse I dont believe that is an indictment of western life any more than yours is an indictment of the religion.

Eh?

Can you point out where anyone has mentioned this apparent western utopia of thieves and adultery where nukes are dropped regularly?

Do you know how people look at the past, specifically of the west and are saddened by the lack of tolerance, equality, independence and freedom shown to all but a few is a not hypocritical when the same doesn't apply elsewhere. Why does this same set of standards not bother you at all because it's happening under Muslim rule across the middle east?

Of course you and the others will claim gays are revered in the middle east, women are in no way subjected to dominance by their father then husband. How education is restricted and how minority groups are subjected to vile acts of discrimination.

If that doesn't bother you then fine. It bothers me.

 

[luvgonzo]

Absolute bollocks Luv.

Religion being involved in law an politics is part of the problem.

And by all means, you show the reasoned arguments for religion, something that doesn't allow reason.

Sorry to be a hypocrite and Google post but............

''About the year 1230 —just after the Magna Carta— Henry de Bracton thoroughly organized England’s system of Common Law into four Latin volumes- On the Laws and Customs of England. The ‘Father of Common Law’ based the entire legal system (the laws for real property and the penal code) on the Ten Commandments.''

There will always be interpretation but the simplistic commandments of not killing or stealing as well as the moralistic parts of our society that end up in court like adultery and property are something that comes from the fact that we are a Christian country and have taken the basis of Christianity into our laws.

 

[UnitedinRed]

I think you have a rather disingenuous nature. While you claim to be a critic of all religions, and you throw in a few comments here or there about other faiths, you seem to have skewed bias against muslims.

I wonder what you'd be posting if a group of extremist muslims kicked out 2 million people, and claimed that due to 2000 year old scriptures they had a God given right to occupy other people's lands by force. And then proceeded to disportionately kill and imprison hundreds of thousands who fought to reprise their homeland? No name-calling here I promise you, but you sir, are a hypocrite.

They did you tit. How on earth do you think we have muslins now? They forced the native arabs , Jews, pagans and Christians to convert, die or suffer a second class life.

Do you think they just appeared out of thin air?

And more is being said about Muslims because, and I am sure you have noticed this, they're the ones who deny any negatives about their religion, seemingly while many dotn actually follow the religion literally. Those that do, well there the reason we have this thread.

And again, not sure how anyone can struggle with this, but religion is a choice. Choices are up for debate.

Most people cherry pick what they want to believe from their faith. Conveniently ignoring the narrative that doesn't fit.

 

[UnitedinRed]

Sorry to be a hypocrite and Google post but............

''About the year 1230 —just after the Magna Carta— Henry de Bracton thoroughly organized England’s system of Common Law into four Latin volumes- On the Laws and Customs of England. The ‘Father of Common Law’ based the entire legal system (the laws for real property and the penal code) on the Ten Commandments.''

There will always be interpretation but the simplistic commandments of not killing or stealing as well as the moralistic parts of our society that end up in court like adultery and property are something that comes from the fact that we are a Christian country and have taken the basis of Christianity into our laws.

Laws on stealing, killing and all moral laws were around long before religion. These are the basis of humanity, not religion.

 

[luvgonzo]

Get a ****ing grip. You act as though had it not been for the Bible then we wouldn't have a moral code. Most of our common law derives from Roman law, which in itself pre-dates Christianity. Murder, for instance, is against the moral code of most societies. The Chinese had rules against it thousands of years before the Nazerite walked the earth. The idea that we had no moral code, nor would have now had it not been for religion, is totally preposterous.

I don't appreciate the "get a grip", I'm clearly making a point that the basis of religion has crept into our every day lives and some of those values may have/could come from the 10 commandments.

My subsequent post making a quote is just to prove that others have considered this so don't talk down to me it's one of the things in life that truly pisses me off.

 

[Treble]

Oh so what you are saying is that accounts from those who were the oppressors are more likely to be accurate the those of the ones they oppressed?

Very strange viewpoint.

I know you find it hard to really comprehend what ppl are saying so I'll clarify (and hope for the best).

Firstly, I prefer to base my history on facts and a wide range of accounts. Yesterday you made some ridiculous claim about a "litter of conflict" betwedn muslims and jews over centuries, and compared it to the historically evident conflicts between muslim and christians. When I called your bluff you couldnt come up with a single example. Now you're coming up with more heresay.

Secondly the real stupidity in your post is this...

... it was similar to living in Nazi Germany before Hitler started killing them by the million.

That is frankly not just offfensive to muslims, but also to the millions of jews who suffered in nazi Germany. But do you know what makes you a prize fcktard UIR? The fact a better comparison to the one you were making is actually the 300 years of British occupation and rule of India, which seems completely lost on you.

You are a small-minded little man. You are the type of person we have to look beyond if we want anything like peace and progress in this world. While I may disagree with some on here about religion, like Donga Klopp, and while you may like his every post, you fail to see the genuine nature of what drives him in his views and how different his desire for a greater good is to your narrow minded ignorance.

 

[Milk not bear jizz]

Sorry to be a hypocrite and Google post but............

''About the year 1230 —just after the Magna Carta— Henry de Bracton thoroughly organized England’s system of Common Law into four Latin volumes- On the Laws and Customs of England. The ‘Father of Common Law’ based the entire legal system (the laws for real property and the penal code) on the Ten Commandments.''

There will always be interpretation but the simplistic commandments of not killing or stealing as well as the moralistic parts of our society that end up in court like adultery and property are something that comes from the fact that we are a Christian country and have taken the basis of Christianity into our laws.

Two out of 10 commandments are in our legal code. More than 2 if you tried to enforce would get you thrown in jail.

Those 2 are law everywhere.

Once upon a time our laws may have been more based on the 10 commandments but those are long gone.


And now... Here's my ticket to hell...

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/ do not bear false witness

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

I don't appreciate the "get a grip", I'm clearly making a point that the basis of religion has crept into our every day lives and some of those values may have/could come from the 10 commandments.

My subsequent post making a quote is just to prove that others have considered this so don't talk down to me it's one of the things in life that truly pisses me off.

Then don't talk to the rest of us like errant children who wouldn't have moral compass were it not for religion, nor to believe that had our society without religion it would be some pagan bloodbath. One of the things in life that pisses ME off is Godbotherers condescending sneers that I'd be sacrificing babies if it wasn't for Stone Age cranks believing that the sky was speaking to them.

 

[Treble]

They did you tit. How on earth do you think we have muslins now? They forced the native arabs , Jews, pagans and Christians to convert, die or suffer a second class life.

Do you think they just appeared out of thin air?

And more is being said about Muslims because, and I am sure you have noticed this, they're the ones who deny any negatives about their religion, seemingly while many dotn actually follow the religion literally. Those that do, well there the reason we have this thread.

And again, not sure how anyone can struggle with this, but religion is a choice. Choices are up for debate.

Most people cherry pick what they want to believe from their faith. Conveniently ignoring the narrative that doesn't fit.

you have a double digit IQ fella. I never questioned muslims. I said that if they had done what jewish extremists did in Palestine, you'd respond in a certain way...which you proved by doing exactly that .

The fact you cant even acknowledge jews have done what I said speaks volumes. Come on UIR lets have a response. A religious group, militarily kick out millions and claim a land ordained to them by God based on 2000 year old scriptures and then as occupiers they disporportionately imprison, exile and kill anyone who tries to reprise their homeland. ALL based solely on religious doctrine. You condone that???

 

[UnitedinRed]

I know you find it hard to really comprehend what ppl are saying so I'll clarify (and hope for the best).

Firstly, I prefer to base my history on facts and a wide range of accounts. Yesterday you made some ridiculous claim about a "litter of conflict" betwedn muslims and jews over centuries, and compared it to the historically evident conflicts between muslim and christians. When I called your bluff you couldnt come up with a single example. Now you're coming up with more heresay.

Secondly the real stupidity in your post is this...



That is frankly not just offfensive to muslims, but also to the millions of jews who suffered in nazi Germany. But do you know what makes you a prize fcktard UIR? The fact a better comparison to the one you were making is actually the 300 years of British occupation and rule of India, which seems completely lost on you.

You are a small-minded little man. You are the type of person we have to look beyond if we want anything like peace and progress in this world. While I may disagree with some on here about religion, like Donga Klopp, and while may like his every post, you fail to see the genuine nature of what drives him in his views and how different his desire for a greater good is to your narrow minded ignorance.

At which point did I stop talking about the conflict between Jews and Muslims? Every post I have made is regarding that and the wider conflicts between Muslims and other faiths. The conflict between the oppressor and the oppressed

Small minded? Haha hahaha. Rich lad, very rich indeed. I'm the one who sees people not by what faith they are but as people, the labels are chosen by the believers. I didnt want to discuss Islam because you are not allowed to discuss Islam but some clowns were peddling the propaganda that has been spouted for years.

Oh and dont pretend to know what donga is thinking. I'm guessing he's not overly pleased with you throwing the racist and bigot cards about.

 

[Treble]

At which point did I stop talking about the conflict between Jews and Muslims? Every post I have made is regarding that and the wider conflicts between Muslims and other faiths. The conflict between the oppressor and the oppressed

Small minded? Haha hahaha. Rich lad, very rich indeed. I'm the one who sees people not by what faith they are but as people, the labels are chosen by the believers. I didnt want to discuss Islam because you are not allowed to discuss Islam but some clowns were peddling the propaganda that has been spouted for years.

Oh and dont pretend to know what donga is thinking. I'm guessing he's not overly pleased with you throwing the racist and bigot cards about.

So no answers then. Just waffle. This is what always happens when you get found out

 

[Spurlock]

They did you tit. How on earth do you think we have muslins now? They forced the native arabs , Jews, pagans and Christians to convert, die or suffer a second class life.

Do you think they just appeared out of thin air?

And more is being said about Muslims because, and I am sure you have noticed this, they're the ones who deny any negatives about their religion, seemingly while many dotn actually follow the religion literally. Those that do, well there the reason we have this thread.

And again, not sure how anyone can struggle with this, but religion is a choice. Choices are up for debate.

Most people cherry pick what they want to believe from their faith. Conveniently ignoring the narrative that doesn't fit.

No it did not appear out of thin air. When Mohammed received revelation(whether you believe this to be true or not is irrelevent) as i am just telling you what reputable biographies of Mohammed's life (known as Seerat) reveal..., when he received revelation...the first people who became Muslim were Mohammed's close friends and family, due to their conviction in his honesty...once again the reasoning is irrelevent as im trying to answer the question 'did they appear out of thin air'. However it was not by force. These people as they grew in number began coming across as a threat to the Meccan chiefs and their tribes. So starting from mere taunting, the abuse developed to violence eventually and persecution by the Meccans who were predominantly Pagan at the time. This eventually led to the 'Hijra' to Medina...that is the emigration to Medina. With Muslim numbers on the rise over the years, they became strong enough to be able to confront their original oppressors and return to Mecca demanding equal rights.

After that followed conflict... thats how the first Muslims came into being....after that dissapproval took its humanly conditoned way. Religious people do get into conflict as they have every right to defend themselves. However, wishing to stick to the question 'do you think they appeared out of thin air' no they didnt..and they certainly were not forced.

 

[Treble]

No it did not appear out of thin air. When Mohammed received revelation(whether you believe this to be true or not is irrelevent) as i am just telling you what reputable biographies of Mohammed's life (known as Seerat) reveal..., when he received revelation...the first people who became Muslim were Mohammed's close friends and family, due to their conviction in his honesty...once again the reasoning is irrelevent as im trying to answer the question 'did they appear out of thin air'. However it was not by force. These people as they grew in number began coming across as a threat to the Meccan chiefs and their tribes. So starting from mere taunting, the abuse developed to violence eventually and persecution by the Meccans who were predominantly Pagan at the time. This eventually led to the 'Hijra' to Medina...that is the emigration to Medina. With Muslim numbers on the rise over the years, they became strong enough to be able to confront their original oppressors and return to Mecca demanding equal rights.

After that followed conflict... thats how the first Muslims came into being....after that dissapproval took its humanly conditoned way. Religious people do get into conflict as they have every right to defend themselves. However, wishing to stick to the question 'do you think they appeared out of thin air' no they didnt..and they certainly were not forced.

Mate why do you persist on talking about your religion with someone who clearly isnt interested, and which tbf will only aggrevate his desire to put it down? With the greatest respect, why do you feel the need to defend it ALL the time. Is your faith so weak that it can't withstand criticism (even IF it is misconceived).

FFS!

 

[luvgonzo]

Then don't talk to the rest of us like errant children who wouldn't have moral compass were it not for religion, nor to believe that had our society without religion it would be some pagan bloodbath. One of the things in life that pisses ME off is Godbotherers condescending sneers that I'd be sacrificing babies if it wasn't for Stone Age cranks believing that the sky was speaking to them.

Get ****ed I haven't posted like that at all I've been quite reasonable in my posts try reading you arrogant dick and I'm agnostic not a "Godbotherer".

 

[UnitedinRed]

you have a double digit IQ fella. I never questioned muslims. I said that if they had done what jewish extremists did in Palestine, you'd respond in a certain way...which you proved by doing exactly that .

The fact you cant even acknowledge jews have done what I said speaks volumes. Come on UIR lets have a response. A religious group, militarily kick out millions and claim a land ordained to them by God based on 2000 year old scriptures and then as occupiers they disporportionately imprison, exile and kill anyone who tries to reprise their homeland. ALL based solely on religious doctrine. You condone that???

The fact I've been discussing Islam taking control of and ruling the native people would suggest I do not condone it.

The Muslims haven't been there 2000 years BTW, Arabs yes, but those Arabs were Jewish, Christian and pagen. Note the word Jewish. And why 2000 years? Why not 3000? Or is that inconvenient in?

And just who was it who started the modern conflicts? What was it that happened the moment Israeli independence was announced? Yeh. That......

Do you know how many Jews lived in the ME in 1948? Excluding Israel's population, do you know how many are left? You should, a clearer picture starts to appear. One where the hews aren't this evil clan who take what they want and do what they want.

Sorry treble pal but I don't buy into the antisemite conspiracy bullshit peddled around the world. Both sides have committed horric acts in each other and none excuses the other but when your the minority group non a hostile region, you have to be able to protect yourself.

It takes two sides for peace. Claiming one is the bad gut and the other the innocent victim helps nobody. It spreads resentment.

 

[UnitedinRed]

Get ****ed I haven't posted like that at all I've been quite reasonable in my posts try reading you arrogant dick and I'm agnostic not a "Godbotherer".

Its funny how politics cab lead to a heated discussion yet can be allowed to go on, even encouraged but religion, the original politics, off limits.

Its a shame really.

 

[Treble]

The fact I've been discussing Islam taking control of and ruling the native people would suggest I do not condone it.

The Muslims haven't been there 2000 years BTW, Arabs yes, but those Arabs were Jewish, Christian and pagen. Note the word Jewish. And why 2000 years? Why not 3000? Or is that inconvenient in?

And just who was it who started the modern conflicts? What was it that happened the moment Israeli independence was announced? Yeh. That......

Do you know how many Jews lived in the ME in 1948? Excluding Israel's population, do you know how many are left? You should, a clearer picture starts to appear. One where the hews aren't this evil clan who take what they want and do what they want.

Sorry treble pal but I don't buy into the antisemite conspiracy bullshit peddled around the world. Both sides have committed horric acts in each other and none excuses the other but when your the minority group non a hostile region, you have to be able to protect yourself.

It takes two sides for peace. Claiming one is the bad gut and the other the innocent victim helps nobody. It spreads resentment.

WTF? what does any of that have to do with what I've posted? You're so obsessed in your angst with muslims that you cant even comprehend discussion on anything else.

It's a simple question. A fundamentalist religious group decide to forcibly claim a whole nation based on 2000 year old scripture. The indigenous population are subjugated, exiled and murdered. Their land seized and their "way of life" (that thing we're trying to preserve) is taken away. Any attempt at reprising their homeland is met with extreme and dispropotionate force. And ALL of it is based on the group claiming they had a God given right to that land based solely on religious doctrine? Do you condone that? A simple yes or no will suffice. I just want to know if your dislike of religion is against all or just some (or one)?

Btw should I await a response to my British Empire's 300 year rule in India as a rebuttle of your lame nazi Germany comparison?

 

[luvgonzo]

Its funny how politics cab lead to a heated discussion yet can be allowed to go on, even encouraged but religion, the original politics, off limits.

Its a shame really.

I have no idea if you're having a pop at me or not with that one?

 

[UnitedinRed]

No it did not appear out of thin air. When Mohammed received revelation(whether you believe this to be true or not is irrelevent) as i am just telling you what reputable biographies of Mohammed's life (known as Seerat) reveal..., when he received revelation...the first people who became Muslim were Mohammed's close friends and family, due to their conviction in his honesty...once again the reasoning is irrelevent as im trying to answer the question 'did they appear out of thin air'. However it was not by force. These people as they grew in number began coming across as a threat to the Meccan chiefs and their tribes. So starting from mere taunting, the abuse developed to violence eventually and persecution by the Meccans who were predominantly Pagan at the time. This eventually led to the 'Hijra' to Medina...that is the emigration to Medina. With Muslim numbers on the rise over the years, they became strong enough to be able to confront their original oppressors and return to Mecca demanding equal rights.

After that followed conflict... thats how the first Muslims came into being....after that dissapproval took its humanly conditoned way. Religious people do get into conflict as they have every right to defend themselves. However, wishing to stick to the question 'do you think they appeared out of thin air' no they didnt..and they certainly were not forced.

You think people just renounced their faith freely and take up another?

Would you? You won't have a bad word said about it so I suspect not but its worth asking.

Is religion that easy to toss away then? Perhaps there's hope after all!!

 

[HugoEkitikeN01]

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