Off Topic Paris Attacks !

[UnitedinRed]

WTF? what does any of that have to do with what I've posted? You're so obsessed in your angst with muslims that you cant even comprehend discussion on anything else.

It's a simple question. A fundamentalist religious group decide to forcibly claim a whole nation based on 2000 year old scripture. The indigenous population are subjugated, exiled and murdered. Their land seized and their "way of life" (that thing we're trying to preserve) is taken away. Any attempt at reprising their homeland is met with extreme and dispropotionate force. And ALL of it is based on the group claiming they had a God given right to that land based solely on religious doctrine? Do you condone that? A simple yes or no will suffice. I just want to know if your dislike of religion is against all or just some (or one)?

Btw should I await a response to my British Empire's 300 year rule in India as a rebuttle of your lame nazi Germany comparison?

You asked about my response to you question. About Jewish and Muslim conflicts.... That was explained in paragraph 1

And no, as I said the first and second time you asked the rather silly question. I merely elaborated on it and included a small reminded of which group actually had Israel first, something, once again, conveniently ignored.

I'm not pretending Britain doesn't have a dark history treble. We as a nation are responsible for many atrocities and for the deaths of many. I don't deny this. However that does not excuse the actions of today.

 

[UnitedinRed]

I have no idea if you're having a pop at me or not with that one?

Not at all luv.

 

[HugoEkitikeN01]

Creation of the State of Israel. Following the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in World War I, the British assumed control of Palestine. In November 1917, the British government issued the Balfour Declaration, announcing its intention to facilitate the "establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people."



I was in Israel in September, I requested the immigration officer not to stamp my passport, because I wanted to visit Palestine. She was furious and told me that there is no state Palestine,

 

[Treble]

You asked about my response to you question. About Jewish and Muslim conflicts.... That was explained in paragraph 1

And no, as I said the first and second time you asked the rather silly question. I merely elaborated on it and included a small reminded of which group actually had Israel first, something, once again, conveniently ignored.

I'm not pretending Britain doesn't have a dark history treble. We as a nation are responsible for many atrocities and for the deaths of many. I don't deny this. However that does not excuse the actions of today.

Firstly, no you've explained nothing. The muslim vs jewish thing was yesterday. You couldnt provide one meaningful example to defend your "litter of conflict" comment. Yet anyone can name half a dozen significant conflicts between christians and muslims. So lets park that. That's not what I'm talking about.

Secondly, the question is a simple one. The answer requires a simple yes or no. We're not talking about muslims now fella. We're talking about religion. We have an example of a religious group who displaced an indigenous population based SOLELY on religious dogma. On 2000 yr old scripture. They believe they have a God given right to it. You're squirming UIR and anyone can see it. Do you condone it UIR? Do you condemn it in equal measure? Yes or no? Either you're against religion or you're not? Or do you cherry pick your anti-religious rhetoric?

 

[UnitedinRed]

Firstly, no you've explained nothing. The muslim vs jewish thing was yesterday. You couldnt provide one meaningful example to defend your "litter of conflict" comment. Yet anyone can name half a dozen significant conflicts between christians and muslims. So lets park that. That's not what I'm talking about.

Secondly, the question is a simple one. The answer requires a simple yes or no. We're not talking about muslims now fella. We're talking about religion. We have an example of a religious group who displaced an indigenous population based SOLELY on religious dogma. On 2000 yr old scripture. They believe they have a God given right to it. You're squirming UIR and anyone can see it. Do you condone it UIR? Do you condemn it in equal measure? Yes or no? Either you're against religion or you're not? Or do you cherry pick your anti-religious rhetoric?

For the fourth time, I have said no.

A few more no's and there's no limit.

 

[Milk not bear jizz]

Creation of the State of Israel. Following the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in World War I, the British assumed control of Palestine. In November 1917, the British government issued the Balfour Declaration, announcing its intention to facilitate the "establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people."



I was in Israel in September, I requested the immigration not to stamp my passport, because I wanted to visit Palestine. She was furious and told me that
there is no state Palestine,

Israel is one of the most evil states on the planet. I fully understand how they became evil... Being surrounded by people that want to kill them has to be stressful. It is still an evil state though and Netanyahu is about as bad as it gets for democratically elected world leaders.


The way they're hell bent on revenge and not forgiving...

... It's like they haven't even read the new testament.

 

[Treble]

I'm not pretending Britain doesn't have a dark history treble. We as a nation are responsible for many atrocities and for the deaths of many. I don't deny this. However that does not excuse the actions of today.

Strange. When did I say it excused anything??? Just pointing out that the actions of the British Empire and life for Indians, was a lot closer to the life of jews under nazi Germany before they started anhialating them - as you said.

You used that to chastise a whole group of ppl and vilify them but cant see the hypocrisy in the progress and benefits afforded to us by similar means. Perhaps Britain is "evil" based on your logic

 

[UnitedinRed]

Israel is one of the most evil states on the planet. I fully understand how they became evil... Being surrounded by people that want to kill them has to be stressful. It is still an evil state though and Netanyahu is about as bad as it gets for democratically elected world leaders

It is very aggressive for sure. There actions are often inexcusable and evil but like you I can see why. These are some of the most persecuted people in history, forced displaced from where ever they settle by native and non native forces.

It doesn't excuse it at all, I don't support the state of Israel as it is today, its doing to Palestinians what many have done to them. Surely the people of influence and power can see the hypocrisy in it all?

 

[HugoEkitikeN01]

Jewish militias fought back, and after the British left Palestine, Israel was declared a state. The 1948 War of Independence was a conflict that was instigated by the proposition of a compromise,

 

[Treble]

Israel is one of the most evil states on the planet. I fully understand how they became evil... Being surrounded by people that want to kill them has to be stressful. It is still an evil state though and Netanyahu is about as bad as it gets for democratically elected world leaders.


The way they're hell bent on revenge and not forgiving...

... It's like they haven't even read the new testament.

I "liked" that post initially, but I'm not keen on the use of "evil" to describe a whole group of ppl. I think there are many many good people in Israel that want peace and justice for the palestinians as well.

Agree completely about Netaynyahu though. A war-monger and modern day fascist. A truly evil person and a black stain on good decent jews as much as ISIS is to good decent muslims

 

[Milk not bear jizz]

I "liked" that post initially, but I'm not keen on the use of "evil" to describe a whole group of ppl. I think there are many many good people in Israel that want peace and justice for the palestinians as well.

Agree completely about Netaynyahu though. A war-monger and modern day fascist. A truly evil person and a black stain on good decent jews as much as ISIS is to good decent muslims

I wouldn't say the people are evil. The state is. Nazi Germany was evil, but the citizens of Germany wern't necessarily evil.

 

[Treble]

It is very aggressive for sure. There actions are often inexcusable and evil but like you I can see why. These are some of the most persecuted people in history, forced displaced from where ever they settle by native and non native forces.

It doesn't excuse it at all, I don't support the state of Israel as it is today, its doing to Palestinians what many have done to them. Surely the people of influence and power can see the hypocrisy in it all?

This is true also.

Nothing would do more for peace in the middle-east (and tge world) than sorting out a viable Israel and Palestine existing side by side. No fcker wants to do anything about it though. And those that do (on both sides) are usually ignored... or killed.

 

[UnitedinRed]

Strange. When did I say it excused anything??? Just pointing out that the actions of the British Empire and life for Indians, was a lot closer to the life of jews under nazi Germany before they started anhialating them - as you said.

You used that to chastise a whole group of ppl and vilify them but cant see the hypocrisy in the progress and benefits afforded to us by similar means. Perhaps Britain is "evil" based on your logic

Britain is, or at least was. Now were naive and neglectful which isnt necessarily evil.

And whether or not British rule in India or Islamic rule of Jews was closer to Nazi Germany or not is irrelevant. Both are wrong. If it was Muslims, it would be wrong, atheists? Wrong, Christians? Wrong.

However, it is unfortunately not that simple. I wish it was. Each group feels wronged by the other due to some historic or current action.

 

[HugoEkitikeN01]

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[UnitedinRed]

This is true also.

Nothing would do more for peace in the middle-east (and tge world) than sorting out a viable Israel and Palestine existing side by side. No fcker wants to do anything about it though. And those that do (on both sides) are usually ignored... or killed.

Itvwill take decades of reeducation of youth. Much like the stigmas and stereotypes of the western world have slowly been eroded away over the past century or two, the same will hopefully happen in that region.

No amount of conflict, terrorism or aggression of any kind will resolve the issues in the middle east, these are in part, the reasons behind the mess there.

If only they were able to let it go.

 

[Treble]

I wouldn't say the people are evil. Nazi Germany was evil, but the citizens of Germany wern't necessarily evil.

The state of Israel was not a bad idea. It was just badly inconceived and in the end disgracefully executed. I think Yitzak Rabin (a person I respected greatly) described it perfectly when he said

“My brother Jews: every place in the Land of the Prophets, every name is an integral part of our heritage of thousands of years, of the Divine promise to us and to our descendants. Here is where we were born. Here is where we created a nation. Here we forged a haven for the persecuted and built a model democratic country. But we are not alone here on this soil, in this land. And so we are sharing this good earth today with the Palestinian people to choose life."

 

[Treble]

Britain is, or at least was. Now were naive and neglectful which isnt necessarily evil.

And whether or not British rule in India or Islamic rule of Jews was closer to Nazi Germany or not is irrelevant. Both are wrong. If it was Muslims, it would be wrong, atheists? Wrong, Christians? Wrong.

However, it is unfortunately not that simple. I wish it was. Each group feels wronged by the other due to some historic or current action.

Spot on

I can still be proud of England despite some of our actions in the past. I think that's how religious ppl feel about religion. I like to think that religion is a force for good despite human nature. If religion was evil (or a bad thing) then with 5 billion religious ppl this world would have ended years ago. I like to think religion has actually held back the tide of total chaos and destruction, and that in fact the problems we face are simply a work in progress towards religion's greater good.

 

[NSIS]

I don't see where there's a foreseeable end to it. The Palestininans will never accept the existence of Israel. The Jewish people have sworn never to give it up.
Compounding the problem is Jerusalem, the third holiest site in Islam and the holiest site in Judaism.

 

[Treble]

Tbf the leader of the palestinians accepted the state of israel 20 years ago. Most israelis want peace and accept a two state solution. It just takes the same will on both sides as it did back in the early 90's. Once you can manage that, the extremists on both sides will eventually be marginalised.
The trouble is we have a warmonger in charge on one side and a corrupt coward who's lining his own pocket, on the other. And the most overrated, weak US President in modern history who lacks any calibre.

 

[UnitedinRed]

Spot on

I can still be proud of England despite some of our actions in the past. I think that's how religious ppl feel about religion. I like to think that religion is a force for good despite human nature. If religion was evil (or a bad thing) then with 5 billion religious ppl this world would have ended years ago. I like to think religion has actually held back the tide of total chaos and destruction, and that in fact the problems we face are simply a work in progress towards religion's greater good.

When I talk about religion being evil I am referring to its central core. Those in positions of influence and power. Not the many followers. Followers of anything, be it religion, politics, fads etc are just that, followers. They are involved at various levels or put another way, their commitment varies from person to person.