Pardew OUT thread

[Geordie lass in the Fen]

I hope Ashley stick with him too, but l also hope that Ashley backs him with more than just the endorsement of his job role. Ashley is an astute business man and has a financial blue print for the club, which includes financial prudence in both arenas of player acquisition and wages, no one can surely have an issue with that.
However, as with all good business plans there should be an emergency contingency plan. Ashley will want to spend as little as possible and earn as much as possible, that said, there will be a budget of some sort.
Ongoing there will be times when he will be able to spend relatively little and other times when due to circumstances he may be required to spend more than he would wish. Taken over the life of the business plan, it's perfectly acceptable to both underspend and overspend, so long as the cumulative total does not exceed the budget agreed. I feel we are in a situation where he needs to spend above the level he would ideally have wished, for me l would suspect some degree of surplus from the previous window. He will need to claw it back at some point in the future, and l don't suspect the total budget is that big to begin with. If he gambles and that is his call, we may end up in the Championship, not good for him or his investment. He is a gambling man, we know that, but will he gamble with our Premiereship status, who knows.
For me we need a quality centre back as the minimum, Debuchy is great, but not enough if we are leaking goals. I will reserve my opinion until the window slams shut, if we have made no more first team (purple) signings, then that for me says everything l need to know about our forseeable future.

 

[Clarence Acuna]

All well and good in theory, but watching the team this season I see a side sinking towards relegation without a fight, and getting worse. After seeing us surrender once we go behind in almost every game we play, and judging the body language of key players like our club captain, I see Norwich as Villa beating us easily, before we perhaps bring in a striker.

I agree stability is hugely important, but we could end up drifting into the championship as a result of loyalty to a manager who has lost the team. Like I said, he needs to be judged after the window, and I feel he deserves to do well, I also feel that Debuchy arriving and Cabaye coming back will provide a major fillip against Norwich, but still not hugely enthusiastic.

I like Pardew, I like stability and loyalty, but I love Newcastle United and I wouldn't watch my team whimper down to the championship due to a misguided loyalty towards Pardew, and sadly that is something I can genuinely see happening, it's not fickle, it's a bona fide and considered worry with a large amount of evidence to back it up.

Each to their own mate, as I say its all fickle to me as I'm keen to see us finally build. Man U went through worse than this with SAF, Everton did with Moyes. There were fans there saying exactly the same thing you are about risking relegation through misguided loyalty. To me loyalty is exactly that, having the nuts for it regardless how tricky it gets.

I'd like to be proved wrong, but on current form and performances we may stick by him to the detriment of our premier league status.

As for the fickle thing, surely it's like lasses, if you keep sacking them off everytime you see someone with bigger tits its fickle. But if your lass is constantly letting you down and can't change, does moving on to someone more reliable and less selfish make you fickle or sensible? Pardew is definitely creeping towards unchangeable slag as opposed to mildly annoying lass who could make a bit more of herself at times

 

[Clarence Acuna]

I hope Ashley stick with him too, but l also hope that Ashley backs him with more than just the endorsement of his job role. Ashley is an astute business man and has a financial blue print for the club, which includes financial prudence in both arenas of player acquisition and wages, no one can surely have an issue with that.
However, as with all good business plans there should be an emergency contingency plan. Ashley will want to spend as little as possible and earn as much as possible, that said, there will be a budget of some sort.
Ongoing there will be times when he will be able to spend relatively little and other times when due to circumstances he may be required to spend more than he would wish. Taken over the life of the business plan, it's perfectly acceptable to both underspend and overspend, so long as the cumulative total does not exceed the budget agreed. I feel we are in a situation where he needs to spend above the level he would ideally have wished, for me l would suspect some degree of surplus from the previous window. He will need to claw it back at some point in the future, and l don't suspect the total budget is that big to begin with. If he gambles and that is his call, we may end up in the Championship, not good for him or his investment. He is a gambling man, we know that, but will he gamble with our Premiereship status, who knows.
For me we need a quality centre back as the minimum, Debuchy is great, but not enough if we are leaking goals. I will reserve my opinion until the window slams shut, if we have made no more first team (purple) signings, then that for me says everything l need to know about our forseeable future.

Agree almost totally.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

That's a very commendable and brave stance to take.

Have you considered that Pardew may actually not be the right man for the job?

It's possible you know - when I compare his tenure to that of say Chris Hughton, it suggests to me that Pardew may be over-rated somewhat.

He's been a manager a very long time but I don't believe he has any major honours to his name - don't misunderstand me here, I don't want him sacked right now, no he should at least be given to the end of the season.

Trouble is, if we all nail our colours to the Pardew mast, he may well come up short - surely if someone like CH can get us back up at the first attempt, Pardew being the "more experienced manager" should be able to conquer the Championship should we be relegated?

I've seen worrying signs from Pardew recently - especially his 'bigging up' of Brighton before the match... it was like he was preparing his excuses in advance.

I'm hopeful that this a rather nasty 'blip' (although 2 wins in 11 games is more than a blip) and that we'll all look back and laugh!

Many times. I doubted him massively when he arrived. I looked at his record and thought "what's he actually achieved elsewhere?".

Then you look at reality and he has yet to be given 5 years at a club let alone longer. I think its a disease of the modern game this demand for instant success and inability to accept any backward steps. Its come from the world of business and the philosophy of "continual improvement". Hardly surprising given the owners we now have across the game.

However I've seen enough over a two season period to think he knows what he's doing. I think he understands football and given time I'm confident we'll progress under him. Sure the first 1 and half seasons he was a lot better than the last 6 months in decision making but that is exactly what its about for me. Allowing a manager a tough half season or season.

For what its worth I think we would have done well under Hughton if he'd been given time. I think his face didn't fit for Ashley, certainly the decision to sack him could not have been based on his performance managing the club. My concern is we now do the same with Pardew and start the little game all over again. Eventually we might hit really really lucky and find a genial manager who can do no wrong. I doubt it though. In my time supporting the club I have seen one manager be given free reign without the nagging fear of the sack. That was Keegan. To me that just highlights years of mismanagement at the top. Yes everyone must be accountable but I look around and its seems to me that patience is the only way you ever really get something out of football.

I fully accept my views are at odds with the vast majority of modern football fans, its just the way I see things when I take a step back and look at other clubs and what history tells us.

 

[Geordie lass in the Fen]

Agree almost totally.

Glad you like my point of view, not to sure l am loving your "lasses" analogy though.

 

[SeanyK]

Many times. I doubted him massively when he arrived. I looked at his record and thought "what's he actually achieved elsewhere?".

Then you look at reality and he has yet to be given 5 years at a club let alone longer. I think its a disease of the modern game this demand for instant success and inability to accept any backward steps. Its come from the world of business and the philosophy of "continual improvement". Hardly surprising given the owners we now have across the game.

However I've seen enough over a two season period to think he knows what he's doing. I think he understands football and given time I'm confident we'll progress under him. Sure the first 1 and half seasons he was a lot better than the last 6 months in decision making but that is exactly what its about for me. Allowing a manager a tough half season or season.

For what its worth I think we would have done well under Hughton if he'd been given time. I think his face didn't fit for Ashley, certainly the decision to sack him could not have been based on his performance managing the club. My concern is we now do the same with Pardew and start the little game all over again. Eventually we might hit really really lucky and find a genial manager who can do no wrong. I doubt it though. In my time supporting the club I have seen one manager be given free reign without the nagging fear of the sack. That was Keegan. To me that just highlights years of mismanagement at the top. Yes everyone must be accountable but I look around and its seems to me that patience is the only way you ever really get something out of football.

I fully accept my views are at odds with the vast majority of modern football fans, its just the way I see things when I take a step back and look at other clubs and what history tells us.

Come on mate, if we went down and never came back first time you still think he would be the man for the job, that is blind faith, and a terrible outlook. There is no rulebook that states give a manager 3-5 years to get to his best, at that point we could be completely blasted out of sight - poor managers can ruin teams, Souness absolutely ruined us and should have gone long before he did - you can't disagree surely?!

What has he done in the past that gives you the confidence he can manage this situation well? Worrying stats with his other teams about great first seasons and poor thereafter seem to be matching up with what he is doing at our club.

Yes, I completely agree with people who say "who would we get?" as I genuinely don't know, the problem I have is I really do not think Pardew is the right man, and I am genuinely concerned (as we all are) did we not pretty much have a full team vs West Ham & Swansea? At SJP as well!? There is no excuse for those performances.

Hughton was probably a Pardew equivelent, we would do 'alright' under him for a while, but eventually lack what is needed to press up the table.

Every manager has a bad run, but not this bad, the Sir Alex @ Utd theory is overused and unproven any other time, Moyes at Everton? Was it THIS bad? That's a genuine question as I don't remember how bad they were under him at their 'worst'

Should Liverpool have given Hodgson more time? No I don't think so.
Dalglish? No way.

The simple, SIMPLE facts are this;

REGARDLESS of the squad/team you have available, they should ALL be playing to their maximum capacity, I do not believe our team yesterday is actually as bad as they played, because we all know, most of us could have gone out and gave a better account of ourselves than the team yesterday, and that comes down to motivation, tactics and desire to win - this is instilled by the manager, and Pardew did NOT give the players that.

Great tactical managers and motivators can get 'less skilled' players beating better teams - we have seen that many times in the past.

 

[Deleted #]

I'd like to be proved wrong, but on current form and performances we may stick by him to the detriment of our premier league status.

As for the fickle thing, surely it's like lasses, if you keep sacking them off everytime you see someone with bigger tits its fickle. But if your lass is constantly letting you down and can't change, does moving on to someone more reliable and less selfish make you fickle or sensible? Pardew is definitely creeping towards unchangeable slag as opposed to mildly annoying lass who could make a bit more of herself at times

Excellently presented

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

Come on mate, if we went down and never came back first time you still think he would be the man for the job, that is blind faith, and a terrible outlook. There is no rulebook that states give a manager 3-5 years to get to his best, at that point we could be completely blasted out of sight - poor managers can ruin teams, Souness absolutely ruined us and should have gone long before he did - you can't disagree surely?!

What has he done in the past that gives you the confidence he can manage this situation well? Worrying stats with his other teams about great first seasons and poor thereafter seem to be matching up with what he is doing at our club.

Yes, I completely agree with people who say "who would we get?" as I genuinely don't know, the problem I have is I really do not think Pardew is the right man, and I am genuinely concerned (as we all are) did we not pretty much have a full team vs West Ham & Swansea? At SJP as well!? There is no excuse for those performances.

Hughton was probably a Pardew equivelent, we would do 'alright' under him for a while, but eventually lack what is needed to press up the table.

Every manager has a bad run, but not this bad, the Sir Alex @ Utd theory is overused and unproven any other time, Moyes at Everton? Was it THIS bad? That's a genuine question as I don't remember how bad they were under him at their 'worst'

Should Liverpool have given Hodgson more time? No I don't think so.
Dalglish? No way.

The simple, SIMPLE facts are this;

REGARDLESS of the squad/team you have available, they should ALL be playing to their maximum capacity, I do not believe our team yesterday is actually as bad as they played, because we all know, most of us could have gone out and gave a better account of ourselves than the team yesterday, and that comes down to motivation, tactics and desire to win - this is instilled by the manager, and Pardew did NOT give the players that.

Great tactical managers and motivators can get 'less skilled' players beating better teams - we have seen that many times in the past.

On the basis of what you are saying though Man U would certainly have sacked SAF in his early years, and Moyes would have been fired too. Moyes has flirted with relegation at Xmas a few times. Small squads, injuries and tight budgets can lead to difficult times. In his first 4 years he finished 15th and 17th in two of those seasons. Where would they have been with such short term thinking? The reason people say the Ferguson thing is overused is because there are very few modern managers who have had time so he is one of maybe 3 examples! (Wenger and Moyes the others). The cold hard facts are Ferguson had a great start but his 2nd full season was no fun. After a 2nd placed finished 1st season he ended up 11th after spending a fortune, it included a winless 9 match spell. The following season he finished 13th having been just above the relegation zone at Christmas (again having spent a kings ransom), this included an 8 game spell losing 6 with 2 draws (sounding familiar?). The fans had banners out and wanted him gone.

Relatively speaking these two examples of sticking with your manager after he has previously proved himself capable in his first season suggests the prudent and sensible approach would be to give him 3 or 4 seasons and see where the club is at.

So the SIMPLE facts are that on the small sample we have of managers being given 5 years or more in modern football, they have achieved a level of stability we can only dream about. Players playing at maximum capacity, motivation, tactics, desire etc is a nice thought, but the reality is managers make mistakes and have bad spells. Not some of them, ALL of them. Good managers can get less skilled players beating better teams, look at Man U at home last season! Look at Liverpool after disposing of Benitez too, that served them really well didn't it? Or a bit closer to home Sunderland after Reid? Us after Bobby?

Your comments on Hughton are an opinion I disagree with. He is yet to be at a club for a sustained period to judge him. On the short spell he has had in management, I think he has performed well above average.

I agree completely Souness was not the man. Unlike Pardew, at no time did he show me anything. You are basically writing off 18 months of good managements for 6 months of average management. Nothing to do with injuries, his management of resources has been average. However in the first 18 months he managed his resources really well.

I hope this board have some patience and cojones because fans in general seem fickle to me.

 

[Clarence Acuna]

To be honest I think you're preaching to the converted in terms of stability. The thing is I for one have genuine concerns he's not the man for the job. He's showed glimpses of being that man, but similarly real hints he may not be. A prime example are the two long term appointments you cite, when things got bad they - Moyes in particular - went back to basics, commitment, spirit and dangerous set pieces. Pardew could not be further from securing these cornerstones for survival at present, that really worries me.

It may seem I'm anti Pardew, I'm really not, I think he could do well with a good January, but out ineptitude of late have simply led me to question whether he is the man to take us forward. He currently seems unable to react, adapt and motivate, and that is a concern, I just hope he does and quickly then we can continue to trust in him and his team, as was the case with Everton and Man U.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

To be honest I think you're preaching to the converted in terms of stability. The thing is I for one have genuine concerns he's not the man for the job. He's showed glimpses of being that man, but similarly real hints he may not be. A prime example are the two long term appointments you cite, when things got bad they - Moyes in particular - went back to basics, commitment, spirit and dangerous set pieces. Pardew could not be further from securing these cornerstones for survival at present, that really worries me.

It may seem I'm anti Pardew, I'm really not, I think he could do well with a good January, but out ineptitude of late have simply led me to question whether he is the man to take us forward. He currently seems unable to react, adapt and motivate, and that is a concern, I just hope he does and quickly then we can continue to trust in him and his team, as was the case with Everton and Man U.

Its just not time to judge him yet, on that I think we agree.

 

[SeanyK]

Weeks ago I said this, and now more of you are starting to realise it's true, he needs to go soon before it's too late.

Not sure id want Roberto Di Matteo, as he wasn't exactly great with West Brom, and Chelsea were dour under him really when you consider the team he had - the CL was a major bit of luck!

Let's not get aggressive in the thread though - we are ALL Newcastle fans and we want the best for the club.

 

[SAINTDON13]

Good news folks, Nigel Adkins is available, he has finished off Pardews work before, so why not a bit of deja vu?

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

Happy to stick with Pards to be honest but I think he'll be lucky to keep his job, just the way modern football works.

 

[leez]

you can get 10 to 1 with stan james for him being the next manager to be sacked ( canny price)


odds think he will stay ..

 

[davieboy]

I'm not a knee-jerk type of person.
I've defended Pardew before.
However, yesterday's decisions were shocking!

1 up front - at home - with Shola on the wing!! (then Cisse)
Marveaux subbed - yes he'd started the 2nd half quietly, but so had 10 others!!
When he went off, their 2 goals stemmed from where he'd have covered.

We can't defend, so why try to keep a lead!

Attack - on the deck - and keep possession.

Mid Term report - MUST DO BETTER!!!

 

[Agent Bruce]

you can get 10 to 1 with stan james for him being the next manager to be sacked ( canny price)


odds think he will stay ..

If it wasn't for his 'special' relationship with MA, I'd jump at those odds.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

you can get 10 to 1 with stan james for him being the next manager to be sacked ( canny price)


odds think he will stay ..

I'm taking those!! Once you lose some of the support at ours, you can't do right for doing wrong. Days are numbered for me.

 

[LTF]

I'm taking those!! Once you lose some of the support at ours, you can't do right for doing wrong. Days are numbered for me.

Agree with this, and it will be difficult to win over the fans again.

 

[Eddie's British Plodders]

There is a lot of noise on twitter that he has been sacked.

 

[Lieutenant]

There is a lot of noise on twitter that he has been sacked.

I was about to type this, there are rumors Newcastle, due to a contract clause only have to pay him a year off his wages and Skybet have him 2/1 for the sack.