O/T - Abortion

[Darth Plagueis]

I know it's a womans body, but people need to address the fact that men should have more rights in reproduction.

It's not fair that a woman gets to choose whether a baby lives or dies, regardless of what the man wants. You would never force a woman to kill her baby if she wanted to keep it, so what if a guy really wants the child?

It could kill him inside. It's not fair.

I hope they invent some sort of way harvest unwanted babies from women who want them aborted, then find someway to be able to let it grow into a living baby, so the father of the baby, or people who cannot have children, are given a chance to have a child and take care of it right from birth, so they can experience what they deserve to experience.

 

[CCC]

Sorry, mate. Disagree.
It's much more complex than that.

I respect your opinion, Saint, but find your post a touch troubling. I thought Rev summed up the 'core' issue(s) quite well. Of course it's more complex than that -- isn't everything! -- but I don't think shying from complex problems / debates will solve anything. If you think the dispute insoluble, fair enough. But the world will continue to make decisions and have these debates even in the absence of your opinion. Why not contribute, is all I'm saying, really.

I'm a big fan of free speech so I'd like to know what you disagreed with in Rev's post, and what other points, in your opinion, make the issue more complex? You haven't posted much on this topic, but seem to have a few thoughts on the matter. So why not share them?

 

[UnitedinRed]

Religion should have no place in this. For one it is one of the primary reasons many women have abortions. The stigma associated with sex and pregnancy by some religions basically forces women down the abortion route for the wrong reasons.

Society also shares the blame. The general opinion on young mums, especially young single mums is very poor. They are judged as a whole. I know a few young mums in their early 20's with children of 2 and upwards and in many cases they are far better parents than the older generation. However some young girls who read magazines and see constant criticisms of young mums, horror stories of chav mums who leave their kids at home while they go on the lash and the Jeremy Kyle style view many have of them scares them senseless.

At home as well. Imagine how it must feel for a young girl to have her mum and dad tell her if she gets pregnant they will disown her and consider her a slut.

I am pro-choice but the reasons above need addressing. The stigma of it all needs removing so that girls dont feel pressured by society, religion and family to abort a baby that in many cases they do want but feel so ashamed and scared that they see no other option.

 

[UnitedinRed]

however much you might want the man to have a say, in practice he never can.

it's must always be the woman's choice, because if the man and woman disagree and the woman wants the baby, the man cannot abort it, but if the woman doesn't want the baby you can't put her in a straightjacket until she gives birth.

if the guy really wants the child he should have been planning the pregnancy with the woman from the start.

I agree with almost everything you have said in here

 

[CCC]

if the guy really wants the child he should have been planning the pregnancy with the woman from the start.

Agreed. If the pregnancy is accidental then the casting vote must be the woman's because, as you said, it's her body.

If a man really wants a child then he owes it to himself, and to the unborn child, to do it with someone who wants it too.

As Hitchens once said (paraphrasing): the way to Civilisation is by giving women the power over their own reproductive abilities. It's a valid point.

 

[Red Hadron Collider]

I agree with almost everything you have said in here

You do understand you've just agreed with Davidako

 

[UnitedinRed]

You do understand you've just agreed with Davidako

Dont worry, I slapped myself

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

When I was still CofE...... rather than just kicking the RC's, I'm pretty sure the official stance of the CofE is anti-abortion. Our local, reactionary, conservative Sun-writng archbishop here in York said something about it years ago, I'm sure. Just to confuse everyone though, when we had our daughter baptised in an Anglican church 15 years ago (I know, I'm a hypocrite securalist) it said it was 'high' church, thus catholic: but not Roman Catholic, if that make sense.

Didn't have a clue what was going on. Good piss-up afterwards though.

Is it really the first abortion clinic in Ni? I had a catholic girlfriend back in LiverpoolHer family were RC's from NI (Derry)., and there were three sisters in the family, and to my knowledge they ALL had abortions - not mine though!

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

"As Hitchens once said (paraphrasing): the way to Civilisation is by giving women the power over their own reproductive abilities. It's a valid point."

Dolphins do that naturally, and they're pretty civilised. I presume you mean Christopher and not Peter Hitchens?

 

[CCC]

"As Hitchens once said (paraphrasing): the way to Civilisation is by giving women the power over their own reproductive abilities. It's a valid point."

Dolphins do that naturally, and they're pretty civilised. I presume you mean Christopher and not Peter Hitchens?

Dongo, seriously, don't mention him in the same breath! He's never been fit to get within kicking distance, let alone lace up Christopher's boots!

 

[Noblelox]

Yeah, stone gays to death, kill women for adultery, if a women is raped it's her own fault, all non believers should either convert or be put to death. Yeah ****ing lovely people. You've lost a lot of my respect with that Noblelox

**** me, put words in my mouth why don't you? Nice how you fixate on the extreme aspects of some fanatics... They have it right in that they still think family is the most important thing compared to holidays, cars or jobs.

So thinking that a particular demographic have a worthwhile concept on one topic means I wholeheartedly endorse every last depraved thing the more extreme elements of their group indulge in? Get a grip fella, sounding like a Daily mail/Sun reader there....

 

[Noblelox]

An extremely sensitive issue and I'm not sure we can deal with it adequately here.
I would like to say though, that there are many secular and non-religious people against it for various reasons and it should be discussed with that in mind.
To reduce it to a battle between modern enlightenment and religious conservatism is simplistic and false.

Are you a politician with an answer like that?? Besides, it's better than discussing International Football or Diving.

 

[Foredeckdave]

Religion should have no place in this.

Why? So you wish to act as arbiter of those who are allowed to voice both their opinions and concerned? Therefore why have you not excluded all male homosexuals from having a say? Why have you allowed atheists to have a say? In fact nobody is worthy of having a say!

 

[UnitedinRed]

Why? So you wish to act as arbiter of those who are allowed to voice both their opinions and concerned? Therefore why have you not excluded all male homosexuals from having a say? Why have you allowed atheists to have a say? In fact nobody is worthy of having a say!

Funny you mention homosexuals when talking about religion having no say. If religion had its way, which it has had for far to long there would be no homosexuals, at least not openly.

Religion takes the word of make believe and treats it as fact. It should ha no place in most things. Politics, education, war or abortion. If you want to know why, take each of the 4 things I mentioned and ask yourself, what role has religion played in these areas of life?

I would go as far to say that religion is responsible for a large number of abortions, out dated beliefs some dating back 100's if not 1000's of years. Views and opinions that deem those who become pregnant or engage in sexual activities as scum.

 

[UnitedinRed]

because it's evil nonsense that replaces facts with lies, logic with faith, decency with piety and destroys any hope for consensus and progress in every issue it sticks its unwanted and unneeded twatishness into

**** sake I agree again completely.

The single most evil thing mankind has ever created.

 

[UnitedinRed]

We are going off topic slightly.

I would say someone make a thread about religion to continue the discussion but they dont go well, believers have a tendency to get extremely defensive about it. Insecurities come out and they get angry, very angry in some cases depending on which religion or god you believe in.

 

[Foredeckdave]

because it's evil nonsense that replaces facts with lies, logic with faith, decency with piety and destroys any hope for consensus and progress in every issue it sticks its unwanted and unneeded twatishness into

That is just pure illogical childish nonsense.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

name a single issue ever that people were disagreeing about, religion got involved, and then the problem was solved or made better

Witchcraft. There were loads about in the 17th century, and during the Reformation.

I think I've seen that UIR talking to cats, btw....

Seriously, my sister borrowed me Wolf Hall a month back. Just been reading about a burning. And then you read about that young girl shot by the Taliban for having the tememrity to ask for an education.

That said, the biggest massacres and genocides in history have been committed by the extreme political philosophies of Nazism and Communism. Germany under Hitler, Soviet Russia under Stalin and China under Mao. Fanatics are all the same, whether their Gods are in the clouds or are human.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Jne last word on it from me while i think on. I DESPISE Julie Burchill with a passion, and have ever since I was a student and she wrote for the NME, but she has always said something that should end the argument, for me - NOBODY IS FORCED TO HAVE AN ABORTION. Well not outside China, anyway.

 

[Schneiderlin's Foxy Face]

The woman should have the choice, up to 22 weeks and as long as its a proper reason. I hate people who are against abortion because of religion; fine then, you don't have an abortion, but you cant force someone to have a baby they don't want.