Next Man In.

[Angelicnumber16]

If we get thumped on Wednesday action has got to be taken, if we hang around and fiddle while Rome burns relegation beckons, LJ syndrome all over again except Holden has not had the backing to make signings, my only prayer is Shefield United doesn't play a weakened side and make us look artificially good.

I don't blame Holden for taking the job, anyone in his position would have done the same, and he knew what he was getting in to having been LJ's right hand man. He always seems like a nice guy, but you're right, something has got to change.
Personally I'd get shot of Ashton as well

 

[wizered]

I don't blame Holden for taking the job, anyone in his position would have done the same, and he knew what he was getting in to having been LJ's right hand man. He always seems like a nice guy, but you're right, something has got to change.
Personally I'd get shot of Ashton as well

I totally agree, his time, influence and ideas have passed, that man is the biggest impediment to our team and clubs progress, SL should tell him to do one

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

The bottom line for me is that I don't know where the rot is. It could be Ashton, or Jon Lansdown - or even Steve L himself . There is so little by way of information, facts or evidence coming out of BS3 these days that even our team captain has to use social media to announce his departure, so it's hard to make accusations that would stand up in court, but it certainly points to Ashton as mostly to blame - or is Ashton himself really simply just a bigger puppet of Steve Lansdown who is beginning to come under pressure now that LJ isn't there any more to shield him from it and the fans haven't turned on Deano yet?.

- Why do we have so many injuries - particularly on the training ground? Is anyone assessing our training methods and holding the training department to account? Is anyone appraising the Physios and rehab methods?
- Who decides where we need to strengthen on the pitch? Who REALLY makes the decisions about which players to buy and who to sell? Has Ashton been sitting on a pot of transfer money but kept the purse tightly shut? Did we go in for players, only to be turned down?
- Why have we not gone for a manager with a proven record at this level since Coppell? Is there any significance in Coppell leaving so suddenly all those years ago? Do the 'proven' managers keep turning us down, or do they simply not bother applying? If so, why? Why did it take so long to appoint LJs replacement, when other clubs seem to have replacements lined up to take over within 1 or 2 games?
- Does Steve Lansdown REALLY want to see us in the Premiership? Is there a clear plan? If so, the current plan is obviously failing - so is the senior management team holding themselves to account? What is their 'Improvement Plan' to get us back on track? Are we learning lessons from other successful teams (like Brentford) and applying them to our approach? Was sacking LJ perceived to be the 'silver bullet' that would fix everything?

So many questions - and I doubt if a single one will be answered. We never get anything by way of information out of the club.

 

[Angelicnumber16]

The bottom line for me is that I don't know where the rot is. It could be Ashton, or Jon Lansdown - or even Steve L himself . There is so little by way of information, facts or evidence coming out of BS3 these days that even our team captain has to use social media to announce his departure, so it's hard to make accusations that would stand up in court, but it certainly points to Ashton as mostly to blame - or is Ashton himself really simply just a bigger puppet of Steve Lansdown who is beginning to come under pressure now that LJ isn't there any more to shield him from it and the fans haven't turned on Deano yet?.

- Why do we have so many injuries - particularly on the training ground? Is anyone assessing our training methods and holding the training department to account? Is anyone appraising the Physios and rehab methods?
- Who decides where we need to strengthen on the pitch? Who REALLY makes the decisions about which players to buy and who to sell? Has Ashton been sitting on a pot of transfer money but kept the purse tightly shut? Did we go in for players, only to be turned down?
- Why have we not gone for a manager with a proven record at this level since Coppell? Is there any significance in Coppell leaving so suddenly all those years ago? Do the 'proven' managers keep turning us down, or do they simply not bother applying? If so, why? Why did it take so long to appoint LJs replacement, when other clubs seem to have replacements lined up to take over within 1 or 2 games?
- Does Steve Lansdown REALLY want to see us in the Premiership? Is there a clear plan? If so, the current plan is obviously failing - so is the senior management team holding themselves to account? What is their 'Improvement Plan' to get us back on track? Are we learning lessons from other successful teams (like Brentford) and applying them to our approach? Was sacking LJ perceived to be the 'silver bullet' that would fix everything?

So many questions - and I doubt if a single one will be answered. We never get anything by way of information out of the club.

I've heard that the training routines and injuries we get are being looked at urgently. Whether that's true or not who knows.

As for the rest, we're all in the dark as the club tells us next to nothing. For several years I've been saying I wonder whether we have a poor reputation as a club within the game which may deter players or manager candidates wanting to come to us.
The city is reasonably well appointed in terms of its location and for getting from and to it compared to some places, so something isn't right somewhere.

 

[Supcon72]

The bottom line for me is that I don't know where the rot is. It could be Ashton, or Jon Lansdown - or even Steve L himself . There is so little by way of information, facts or evidence coming out of BS3 these days that even our team captain has to use social media to announce his departure, so it's hard to make accusations that would stand up in court, but it certainly points to Ashton as mostly to blame - or is Ashton himself really simply just a bigger puppet of Steve Lansdown who is beginning to come under pressure now that LJ isn't there any more to shield him from it and the fans haven't turned on Deano yet?.

- Why do we have so many injuries - particularly on the training ground? Is anyone assessing our training methods and holding the training department to account? Is anyone appraising the Physios and rehab methods?
- Who decides where we need to strengthen on the pitch? Who REALLY makes the decisions about which players to buy and who to sell? Has Ashton been sitting on a pot of transfer money but kept the purse tightly shut? Did we go in for players, only to be turned down?
- Why have we not gone for a manager with a proven record at this level since Coppell? Is there any significance in Coppell leaving so suddenly all those years ago? Do the 'proven' managers keep turning us down, or do they simply not bother applying? If so, why? Why did it take so long to appoint LJs replacement, when other clubs seem to have replacements lined up to take over within 1 or 2 games?
- Does Steve Lansdown REALLY want to see us in the Premiership? Is there a clear plan? If so, the current plan is obviously failing - so is the senior management team holding themselves to account? What is their 'Improvement Plan' to get us back on track? Are we learning lessons from other successful teams (like Brentford) and applying them to our approach? Was sacking LJ perceived to be the 'silver bullet' that would fix everything?

So many questions - and I doubt if a single one will be answered. We never get anything by way of information out of the club.

One of the best posts on here for a long while! To me this asks all the questions we have all been talking about. Say what you like, but I fully agree that while LJ was the punchbag for fans, MA was getting a free ride. It's interesting how it was all LJs fault, and now he's gone, and everyone thought things would be better, yet, things are now worse, it's someone else's fault now.

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

I've heard that the training routines and injuries we get are being looked at urgently. Whether that's true or not who knows.

As for the rest, we're all in the dark as the club tells us next to nothing. For several years I've been saying I wonder whether we have a poor reputation as a club within the game which may deter players or manager candidates wanting to come to us.
The city is reasonably well appointed in terms of its location and for getting from and to it compared to some places, so something isn't right somewhere.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

One of the best posts on here for a long while! To me this asks all the questions we have all been talking about. Say what you like, but I fully agree that while LJ was the punchbag for fans, MA was getting a free ride. It's interesting how it was all LJs fault, and now he's gone, and everyone thought things would be better, yet, things are now worse, it's someone else's fault now.

The strange thing is, it was quite GOOD under LJ for a while - during that League Cup run we seemed to be getting it right in the cup AND the league too. What went wrong started at that defeat to Wolves where Frankie got sent off. We never really recovered from that point on. So, what happened? Was the decent spell just a fluke?
I wouldn't say the 'wheels fell off' - we have still finished in the top half of the table every year, but we certainly developed a flat tyre and a groaning axle - which never got repaired and still hasn't. We've limped and wobbled our way to where we are now without, apart from a small number of isolated games, really looking comfortable.

 

[wizered]

One of the best posts on here for a long while! To me this asks all the questions we have all been talking about. Say what you like, but I fully agree that while LJ was the punchbag for fans, MA was getting a free ride. It's interesting how it was all LJs fault, and now he's gone, and everyone thought things would be better, yet, things are now worse, it's someone else's fault now.

Of course LJ had criticism because he accepted the mantle, he failed and had to go, DH seems to be going the same way, Mark Ashton is responsible, he is the CEO, the systems, culture, rules and direction the club has followed have all been driven by him, the appointments and expenditure are controlled by him, the department heads all report to him, he is the main man, the pilot, the captain, the chief constable as someone described him.

He appears when we have had minor successes and claims credit, then disappears up his own arsehole when we fail, we never see him and others carry the blame, it's time to oust the man, his time is up.

 

[Supcon72]

Of course LJ had criticism because he accepted the mantle, he failed and had to go, DH seems to be going the same way, Mark Ashton is responsible, he is the CEO, the systems, culture, rules and direction the club has followed have all been driven by him, the appointments and expenditure are controlled by him, the department heads all report to him, he is the main man, the pilot, the captain, the chief constable as someone described him.

He appears when we have had minor successes and claims credit, then disappears up his own arsehole when we fail, we never see him and others carry the blame, it's time to oust the man, his time is up.

I 100% agree.

 

[BCFCRob]

The bottom line for me is that I don't know where the rot is. It could be Ashton, or Jon Lansdown - or even Steve L himself . There is so little by way of information, facts or evidence coming out of BS3 these days that even our team captain has to use social media to announce his departure, so it's hard to make accusations that would stand up in court, but it certainly points to Ashton as mostly to blame - or is Ashton himself really simply just a bigger puppet of Steve Lansdown who is beginning to come under pressure now that LJ isn't there any more to shield him from it and the fans haven't turned on Deano yet?.

- Why do we have so many injuries - particularly on the training ground? Is anyone assessing our training methods and holding the training department to account? Is anyone appraising the Physios and rehab methods?
- Who decides where we need to strengthen on the pitch? Who REALLY makes the decisions about which players to buy and who to sell? Has Ashton been sitting on a pot of transfer money but kept the purse tightly shut? Did we go in for players, only to be turned down?
- Why have we not gone for a manager with a proven record at this level since Coppell? Is there any significance in Coppell leaving so suddenly all those years ago? Do the 'proven' managers keep turning us down, or do they simply not bother applying? If so, why? Why did it take so long to appoint LJs replacement, when other clubs seem to have replacements lined up to take over within 1 or 2 games?
- Does Steve Lansdown REALLY want to see us in the Premiership? Is there a clear plan? If so, the current plan is obviously failing - so is the senior management team holding themselves to account? What is their 'Improvement Plan' to get us back on track? Are we learning lessons from other successful teams (like Brentford) and applying them to our approach? Was sacking LJ perceived to be the 'silver bullet' that would fix everything?

So many questions - and I doubt if a single one will be answered. We never get anything by way of information out of the club.

Brilliant post.

For all that Lansdown has given the club in terms of the vast funding and the revamped stadium, on the flip side he's just a control freak and nothing, and I mean NOTHING will ever improve on the field until he can see or is told to his face that his stubbornness, macro management, refusal to employ (and pay) a Manager that can really take us forward, his loyalty to Mark Ashton and the general running of the club has been detrimental to our progress on the field over the last 5 or more years.
And what about the 2 world beating Coaches we're supposed to have as someone else said ? I know we've a big injury list, but we're actually going backwards now.

A few weeks ago I had some confidence we could give Sheffield United a game in the Cup, but I am really not confident of anything other than a good beating now.

To be fair I suppose this is sort of how I feel too actually, but when you refer to him being a control freak, how do you mean? Is it as simple as him refusing to employ a competent manager for fear of rocking the boat too much and demanding the control he needs/deserves? Or is it more than that?

It doesn't really make a difference either way really I suppose, in both cases it's harming us as a club.

As for the coaches, without being on the training pitch it's impossible for us to judge them properly on anything other than results, but having said that, they're ex-England youth coaches. They have decent stature in the game - is it us as a club that is stopping them from performing rather than the other way around?

 

[Redprintt]

After 4 years of unprecedented transfer activity BCFC have been left with a poor squad.
Whether you blame LJ, Ashton, Holden or all 3 it's plain to see.
Not ONE player would get in a Norwich, Swansea or Brentford side.

 

[Angelicnumber16]

Brilliant post.



To be fair I suppose this is sort of how I feel too actually, but when you refer to him being a control freak, how do you mean? Is it as simple as him refusing to employ a competent manager for fear of rocking the boat too much and demanding the control he needs/deserves? Or is it more than that?

It doesn't really make a difference either way really I suppose, in both cases it's harming us as a club.

As for the coaches, without being on the training pitch it's impossible for us to judge them properly on anything other than results, but having said that, they're ex-England youth coaches. They have decent stature in the game - is it us as a club that is stopping them from performing rather than the other way around?

What I meant was Lansdown seems to want to run the club his way, and his way only, and doesn't deviate from that path even though it's obvious to all and sundry that we're now going backwards and despite our flattering league position, the Premiership is as far away as it ever was.
For instance I don't think he would employ anyone like Neil Warnock because he'd be told in no uncertain terms how badly his club is run and what he'd need to do to fix it. I just don't think Lansdown would want to hear it, or even listen so he employs yes men such as LJ and now DH. In the past he's clearly chased the likes of Steve Coppell and got badly burned and shown up by it, whilst also signing David James which was, as I understand, one of the reasons why Coppell didn't hang around.

 

[Jiffie]

One of the best posts on here for a long while! To me this asks all the questions we have all been talking about. Say what you like, but I fully agree that while LJ was the punchbag for fans, MA was getting a free ride. It's interesting how it was all LJs fault, and now he's gone, and everyone thought things would be better, yet, things are now worse, it's someone else's fault now.

I would like to fully agree with this post, but I am struggling a little, the manager is always the punch bags for the fans and always will be.

I suppose part of the reason that Ashton got a free ride is because up until January 2018 everything was going swimmingly, we were the toast of the pundits and playing great football and seemingly making great transfer decisions and then it has been pretty much all downhill since and when that happens especially on the field (which it did) then the manager will always pay the price.

To be fair their was always a bit bubbling under the surface reference Ashton, he has never been universally liked, however it took the Williams interview about rehab/injuries and the link to Ashton to actually give the fans enough evidence they needed to see where the problem might actually lie.

Also I think your quote that fans thought that after LJ's departure "everyone thought things would be better" is nowhere near accurate, I think that sentence should have read "had the RIGHT MAN, been brought in LIKE WE WERE PROMISED, that things would be better" and the right man was not brought in and things are not better, are they worse? I would say maybe but to be honest I see no difference in performances, still weak, slow, predictable and non creative and barely registering a shot on target and strikers being starved into submission.

Also I constantly see posts telling me how LJ keeping us in the championship was an achievement (and it was) well barring a complete disaster that looks like being the case once more but suddenly it's not good enough and those people want now to be entertained whilst ignoring the past 3 years of dross.

I would like to point out for clarity, the above paragraph is playing devils advocate, I didn't want Holden and I believe that he is out of his depth but want to add just a little bit of balance whilst making comparisons to LJ.

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

Allowing us to have a decent manager/coach would change things significantly...that also means allowing that manager to do it his way (Squad & team affairs)
IMO, that's all SL needs to do and go from there............it's not rocket science and doesn't have to be complicated.

 

[Angelicnumber16]

Allowing us to have a decent manager/coach would change things significantly...that also means allowing that manager to do it his way (Squad & team affairs)
IMO, that's all SL needs to do and go from there............it's not rocket science and doesn't have to be complicated.

Having a Manager with the necessary experience at this level also helps and is probably a must.
Chris Hughton brought in Glen Murray to Forest last week. Murray, at the age of 37 caused eyebrows to be raised, but they clearly know each other well from Brighton, and Murray duly popped up with a couple of goals on his debut.

 

[wizered]

I wonder if Steve Lansdown will have another loyalty streak and keep DH on regardless, he is on a yearly rolling contract I believe, shouldn't really be any problems there apart from MA's ego.

 

[Redprintt]

So how long does SL give Ashton ?

Umpteen player dealings and 2 managers yet we're far away as Christmas.
If this is success WTF constitutes failure.

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

So how long does SL give Ashton ?

Umpteen player dealings and 2 managers yet we're far away as Christmas.
If this is success WTF constitutes failure.

Seems as if SL doesn't like being dictated to, seems like he likes to have a say towards team affairs, hence why he has Ashton....hence why it seems we don't have coaches that stand up for themselves.....maybe SL is the problem..if that's the case, we won't progress.
Will SL ever employ a coach that will insist on being left alone to do the job required his own way is the question!!

 

[wizered]

So how long does SL give Ashton ?

Umpteen player dealings and 2 managers yet we're far away as Christmas.
If this is success WTF constitutes failure.

I'd have him out immediately,nothing to lose, you've got Doug Harman and Jon Lansdown to take temporary control.

'Prior to joining Bristol City in 2005, Doug was Managing Director of a Lloyds of London Insurance Company having previously held several senior positions and board appointments at NatWest, Ulster Bank and Coutts.

He was appointed Managing Director of Ashton Gate Limited in 2006 and in 2008 he became Group Managing Director and was appointed to the BCFC and Bristol City Holdings Limited boards.

Uniquely, he became BCFC Chief Executive on two occasions, in 2013 and again in 2015 and has been an Executive Director since 2016.'

 

[RedorDead]

The strange thing is, it was quite GOOD under LJ for a while - during that League Cup run we seemed to be getting it right in the cup AND the league too. What went wrong started at that defeat to Wolves where Frankie got sent off. We never really recovered from that point on. So, what happened? Was the decent spell just a fluke?
I wouldn't say the 'wheels fell off' - we have still finished in the top half of the table every year, but we certainly developed a flat tyre and a groaning axle - which never got repaired and still hasn't. We've limped and wobbled our way to where we are now without, apart from a small number of isolated games, really looking comfortable.

Because the team picked itself due to injuries (yes we had them then as well). Once we got some players back the tombola came out and it went to pot.