Newcastle vs Tottenham match thread

[Sidney Fiddler]

GH10 is correct. ENIC have been involved in many European Clubs, . They are there for money ,not for us. They are fat cats who one day hope to make a huge
killing out of the sell of the club. They invest nothing and should move on. No matter what manager we have they will be handcuffed by their lack of funds.
These are brutal business men not supporters of our club. I am surprised by the support of ENIC interests on this board over Spurs. Every year the club
implodes , they leave an ugly stain.
Some have suggested to me , that this site has a under cover element of ENIC employers who put their point of view to counter the rise of the "Young Turks".
Enic have to go as they are the root of all this constant bitterness.

 

[NSIS]

I can see both sides of this arguement. Firstly, yes ENIC are business people. Does that surprise anybody? Most clubs are run by business individuals, or companies. These are not charities, or some fabulously wealthy Arab oil state, with more money than sense. At the end if the day, most clubs owners hope to profit in one way or another. And that doesn't just mean from a positive profit and loss account. It can be in possible resale value, or in promoting other business interests.

Obviously, as fans, we want to see the best for our club. However, unless we should be sold to an Arab consortium, or some such, business realities will always be a factor.

Having said that, we have not been very smart business wise, in some aspects. The continued holding on to of the dead wood. These players should have been offloaded ages ago, and any loss incurred written down by now. The money reinvested into strengthening the squad. The persistent haggling over every last cent. I'm pretty sure that, had we acted decisively, we could have signed Damiao last summer for far less than the current asking price - not very smart. If you see what you want, sure haggle as far as you can. But waiting for the other guy to blink first doesn't always work. Especially when he knows that he's holding all the Aces. I'm sure that had we been more proactive, more flexible, we would have had the striker we so badly needed yesterday. As it is, three points lost already. Three points that could be crucial at the end of the season.

 

[Roo]

I can see both sides of this arguement. Firstly, yes ENIC are business people. Does that surprise anybody? Most clubs are run by business individuals, or companies. These are not charities, or some fabulously wealthy Arab oil state, with more money than sense. At the end if the day, most clubs owners hope to profit in one way or another. And that doesn't just mean from a positive profit and loss account. It can be in possible resale value, or in promoting other business interests.

Obviously, as fans, we want to see the best for our club. However, unless we should be sold to an Arab consortium, or some such, business realities will always be a factor.

Having said that, we have not been very smart business wise, in some aspects. The continued holding on to of the dead wood. These players should have been offloaded ages ago, and any loss incurred written down by now. The money reinvested into strengthening the squad. The persistent haggling over every last cent. I'm pretty sure that, had we acted decisively, we could have signed Damiao last summer for far less than the current asking price - not very smart. If you see what you want, sure haggle as far as you can. But waiting for the other guy to blink first doesn't always work. Especially when he knows that he's holding all the Aces. I'm sure that had we been more proactive, more flexible, we would have had the striker we so badly needed yesterday. As it is, three points lost already. Three points that could be crucial at the end of the season.

totally agree NSIS. what i've tried to say, but better worded by yourself

 

[vimhawk]

Good grief the finances are quite simple, I'll explain them to you again. In the case of Chelsea, i've been explaining it for nearly a decade.

City and Chelsea have owners who back their club with cash, we don't. Many Spurs fans have said they don't want rich owners like City and Chelsea, well I do, and so do others. I and others are tired of being in the shadow of Chelsea, and now City, not to mention Arsenal and Utd.

It is rumoured that RA wanted to buy us, and since then other people have been rumoured likewise. I don't know if these rumours are true, what I do know is I want ENIC to either spend or quit.

I hope this helps explains the financial situation to your goodself

If a super rich owner takes over and provides funds that has no basis in revenue generated by football, then what is the achievement? The title can be awarded to the owner who spent the most money. What is the point in that? Citeh and Chelski have skewed the normal football arguments and it is them we should be annoyed at, not starting on each other over whether or not we should commit financial suicide in order to compete with them. And of course we should be equally annoyed at the authorities for not properly installing a robust and meaningful FFP scheme - I'm sure Chelski took that into consideration during their summer buying! I for one do not want the club taken over by a mega rich owner because that is not competition. It takes us further away from the great game. There are so many fans of those two clubs that think they have somehow earned or deserve their current success, and no doubt there would be many Spurs fans who would think the same if we were taken over in the same way. But its not competition by any normal definition of the term and I don't want our club to be any part of it.

To lose out on a particular transfer target *may be* a different matter, but we never know what the financial deal in place actually was, and what the consequences for all the other salaries at the club would be. The dead wood situation may also be another matter, but let us be clear. Even if we had no salaries going to dead wood players, even if we were in the Champions League, then we could still not match the spending of those two clubs without raising our spending to a much greater level than income. *Football sources cannot make up the difference* can people please understand that.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

Draw would have been a fair result. You were better side first half, we were the 2nd. Probably a similar amount of chances and shots on target. We just came up with a couple of bits of quality. We were no where near our best and will improve massively, I'm sure you probably feel the same. You'd have got that draw with more firepower. Probably a good time to catch us in all honesty because Cisse, Ba and Tiote were no where near their level. We had this last year too and Ramadan certainly affects their output.

 

[Ghoddle10]

Well said again Sidney.

Fair comments Vim, it's what you want from your owners I guess.

I want success, the sort of fairy tale success that City and Chelsea had last season.

I'm sick and tired of us being the 3rd club in London, forever in the shadow of Arsenal and Chelsea under ENIC. And, I hate to say it, I think those two clubs will outperform us again this season.

ENIC have done an okay/good job over the years, and yes despite their poor trophy haul, overall they have improved our position compared to the previous owner. It just makes me mad to see what we could be compared to what we are.

 

[Spurf]

It's not really a question of supporting ENIC or not is it. Many clubs have this kind of situation in terms of rich owners looking to make money from the peoples game. NUFC, Liverpool, Man.U.,Villa all are in this situation. The glory owners are getting pushed out by the huge money sloshing about in the game. The underlying problem is SKY who have used football to grow their corporation. Compared to the way the American owners behave ENIC are not the worst by any means, at least we have a chairman who appears to care about Spurs as a club. If ENIC sell in the present climate it is likely to be to an even more profit motivated group.

I hate all this money talk, I'm in it for the love of the game of football and because I chose to support Spurs many years ago I find myself in the thick of all this ****. It might have been better if I'd stuck with Dulwich Hamlet, but even they sold their ground to a supermarket.

I'll just stick to watching the game and hope we can develop a manager who ends up in a very strong position, making it more difficult for 'owners' to dictate.

 

[No Kane No Gain]

Well said, Spurf.

 

[Bodinki]

If a super rich owner takes over and provides funds that has no basis in revenue generated by football, then what is the achievement? The title can be awarded to the owner who spent the most money. What is the point in that? Citeh and Chelski have skewed the normal football arguments and it is them we should be annoyed at, not starting on each other over whether or not we should commit financial suicide in order to compete with them. And of course we should be equally annoyed at the authorities for not properly installing a robust and meaningful FFP scheme - I'm sure Chelski took that into consideration during their summer buying! I for one do not want the club taken over by a mega rich owner because that is not competition. It takes us further away from the great game. There are so many fans of those two clubs that think they have somehow earned or deserve their current success, and no doubt there would be many Spurs fans who would think the same if we were taken over in the same way. But its not competition by any normal definition of the term and I don't want our club to be any part of it.

To lose out on a particular transfer target *may be* a different matter, but we never know what the financial deal in place actually was, and what the consequences for all the other salaries at the club would be. The dead wood situation may also be another matter, but let us be clear. Even if we had no salaries going to dead wood players, even if we were in the Champions League, then we could still not match the spending of those two clubs without raising our spending to a much greater level than income. *Football sources cannot make up the difference* can people please understand that.

Mate, you have a point, Chelsea and Citeh wouldnt be where they are now if they hadnt had those huge cash injections, but you are overlooking one simple fact.....it only became necessary for those cash injections so they can compete with Manchester United. As soon as the First Division became the Premiership and SKY got involved the playing field became so skewed it became impossible for any one compete with them on a regular basis. Arsenal tried for a few years in the early noughties but even then couldnt win back to back titles under their sensible business model, because the moment Arsenal won the title Man Utd would go and spend 30-50m in the summer on reinforcements (Veron, Rio Ferdinand, Rooney), until Roman bought Chelsea, NO OTHER CLUB COULD DO THAT.

If Roman and Sheikh hadnt come along, what you would have seen at the moment is Man Utd last season winning their 6th consecutive title. All because of the money that gets pumped into them by SKY TV and because they became a PLC whore.
It was only a matter of time before people got fed up with Man Utd flexing their financial muscles, and this is what has happened.
People who delude themselves that it was all a level playing field before Roman came along need to remember back to reason the Premiership and Champions League were formed in the first place, so the rich can get richer and the poor can stay poor.

 

[Ghoddle10]

Good points Bodanki, though remember Sky and the Prem actually love the money men of Chelsea and City, because they bring quality players in from abroad, and also stop it being a bore fest of Utd walking all over everyone else.

The boost that Sky and the Prem got from the drama of the last day last season is the stuff of dreams for any marketing person.

What irks me and many other Spurs though is that we're the patsies in all this. We're playing the 'prudent game', very admirable, etc, but it means we're stuck on the outside while the party's happening elsewhere.

 

[NSIS]

It's not really a question of supporting ENIC or not is it. Many clubs have this kind of situation in terms of rich owners looking to make money from the peoples game. NUFC, Liverpool, Man.U.,Villa all are in this situation. The glory owners are getting pushed out by the huge money sloshing about in the game. The underlying problem is SKY who have used football to grow their corporation. Compared to the way the American owners behave ENIC are not the worst by any means, at least we have a chairman who appears to care about Spurs as a club. If ENIC sell in the present climate it is likely to be to an even more profit motivated group.

I hate all this money talk, I'm in it for the love of the game of football and because I chose to support Spurs many years ago I find myself in the thick of all this ****. It might have been better if I'd stuck with Dulwich Hamlet, but even they sold their ground to a supermarket.

I'll just stick to watching the game and hope we can develop a manager who ends up in a very strong position, making it more difficult for 'owners' to dictate.

As Spurs fans, we all love the game. We could hardly be accused of being glory hunters! I appreciate your sentiments, Spurf. However, I'm afraid they're utopian. Today's reality is almost certainly here to stay. The "Ron Manager" wistful wishing for the past, is just that - a wish. We have to deal with the realities of here and now. And, I'm afraid, get used to it. Wherever money rears it's ugly head, everything else seems to get put in second place.

 

[Spurf]

As Spurs fans, we all love the game. We could hardly be accused of being glory hunters! I appreciate your sentiments, Spurf. However, I'm afraid they're utopian. Today's reality is almost certainly here to stay. The "Ron Manager" wistful wishing for the past, is just that - a wish. We have to deal with the realities of here and now. And, I'm afraid, get used to it. Wherever money rears it's ugly head, everything else seems to get put in second place.

I don't think it's utopian to hope for a strong manager, the rest I have accepted as the reality. I think you have missed my point and placed your own thoughts into my comment.

 

[NSIS]

I don't think it's utopian to hope for a strong manager, the rest I have accepted as the reality. I think you have missed my point and placed your own thoughts into my comment.

I would agree about the strong manager. But my main point was about the implied wish that football was more simple, and that money wasn't involved to such a degree. So, in that case, I think your comment is a little unfair.

 

[Spurf]

I would agree about the strong manager. But my main point was about the implied wish that football was more simple, and that money wasn't involved to such a degree. So, in that case, I think your comment is a little unfair.

My point was and is about ENIC and the wish for new owners. I was not expressing unrealistic hopes for a level playing field. It goes without saying that most fans would want that. You used my comment to take the debate into a new area so I don't think it's unfair to describe that as missing the point.

I think we are in agreement anyway so just a case of misunderstanding and no big deal.

 

[Ghoddle10]

As Spurs fans, we all love the game. We could hardly be accused of being glory hunters! I appreciate your sentiments, Spurf. However, I'm afraid they're utopian. Today's reality is almost certainly here to stay. The "Ron Manager" wistful wishing for the past, is just that - a wish. We have to deal with the realities of here and now. And, I'm afraid, get used to it. Wherever money rears it's ugly head, everything else seems to get put in second place.

Well said NSS

 

[Bubble]

People need to remember it's one game and the teams finished 4th and 5th last season so it was bound to be close, however a draw would have been about right if I'm honest.

Chelsea away two days after playing in greece for us so at least your next fixture is winnable.

It'll work out fine lads good luck for the season.

 

[Ghoddle10]

The best manager in the world couldn't win the title for us with our current squad. AVB is a manager not a miracle worker. He's been sold up the river AFAICS by ENIC.

HOWEVER, if he agreed to join us without being promised two new strikers, then that's his own fault and his rep will suffer I'm afraid.

 

[NSIS]

My point was and is about ENIC and the wish for new owners. I was not expressing unrealistic hopes for a level playing field. It goes without saying that most fans would want that. You used my comment to take the debate into a new area so I don't think it's unfair to describe that as missing the point.

I think we are in agreement anyway so just a case of misunderstanding and no big deal.

No problem, mate. As you say, we misunderstood the main point that the other was trying to make. Unfortunately, wherever it comes from, Arab consortiums, mad Russians, or Sky TV, money is the new God of football. I don't foresee that being changed unless the current governing bodies suddenly grow, a highly unlikely, pair of balls. It is no coincidence that City and Chelsea won all the major honours last year.

 

[Boss]

The best manager in the world couldn't win the title for us with our current squad. AVB is a manager not a miracle worker. He's been sold up the river AFAICS by ENIC.

HOWEVER, if he agreed to join us without being promised two new strikers, then that's his own fault and his rep will suffer I'm afraid.

I'm sure before he signed a contract he was made aware of our Policy, he joined under these conditions so thats his problem as a manager if we don't get the players he wants and his reputation suffers.

If I was in his position, I would have made it aware to Levy that under no circumstances should the strengthening of the squad be blocked by the sale of a single player, especially when this player WILL be sold, its not even in question, there will be funds from the sale of Modric, its just a matter of time,

 

[NSIS]

Draw would have been a fair result. You were better side first half, we were the 2nd. Probably a similar amount of chances and shots on target. We just came up with a couple of bits of quality. We were no where near our best and will improve massively, I'm sure you probably feel the same. You'd have got that draw with more firepower. Probably a good time to catch us in all honesty because Cisse, Ba and Tiote were no where near their level. We had this last year too and Ramadan certainly affects their output.

If you can retain the key players that you have, you'll be up there again this season, for sure. Pardew has really surprised me. And I would love to have whichever scout found Cabaye, Tiote, Cisse, etc!..all fantastic bargains in this crazy market.