New Head Coach

[WorkyTicketFTM]

I thought that under the DoF system the style of play was set and coaches were appointed who were comfortable coaching that system but who could sprinkle that little bit of fairy dust that would provide the improvement in individual and team performance.
If that Head coach didn't improve performances then a new one could slot in with minimal disruption at least ensuring some continuity.
I understood that it was also policy to improve and produce our own coaches within this playing style, again with a view to continuity.
Obviously nothing lasts for ever and playing style along with tactics evolve, but over time.

Yet here we are with with people screaming to effectively appoint a manager with his own team to dictate playing style and tactics which will lead to a period of initial confusion as players have to adapt to these new demands, with no continuity of playing style from Academy to first team d probably with the need to sign new players to fit this new playing style. In other words a demand for short term fixes, surely that's what contributed to the problems we had leading to the double relegation.

I think it's time for cool heads and patience. The new head coach should, and probably will, be allowed to bring in someone he trusts to help get his message across. For the first time in years there is some semblance of a plan to improve the players and the club, can we give it a chance.

I know this won't please the attention seeking wum's and no doubt there'll be a few comments flying my way, carry on, sticks and stones and all that. After all it's only a message board and we have no influence on the decisions taken by the club, despite how important some posters feel they are,

The football has progressively got worse since TM left though, whilst both of the coaches have still been involved. And the football under Alex Neil wasn’t possession based like Mowbray so I don’t think we have a set in stone identity. There’s only really so many tactics/formations and then adaptations on those so it’s not as if we’re looking for a manager who plays in a 1 in 1000 style of football.

I don’t have anything against Dodds and Proctor I’m sure they’re both nice lads and half decent coaches at the beginning of their journey and they’ll only get better but in my opinion it would be better for the club and a much more attractable vacancy if we were to allow the new manager to bring in his own team.

 

[BRMC]

Aye and lost them both - face it they aren't any good at managing the team - their record is beyond a joke.

Who's saying they are?

 

[BRMC]

Fair bit we lost to lifting opposition. Now with them in the hot seat again, we are literally relation form under last 6 and 10 game form guides. They are not suitable for such promising positions. Behind the scenes , player development. Link person to the front bench. Not making the calls.

Reality has shown they are not up to it. Desperate for the summer and need Speakman to allow the new coach to bring in a team. Not be buzzing with an assistant only.

Not arguing they are up for it.

 

[Smug in Boots]

Fair bit we lost to lifting opposition. Now with them in the hot seat again, we are literally relation form under last 6 and 10 game form guides. They are not suitable for such promising positions. Behind the scenes , player development. Link person to the front bench. Not making the calls.

Reality has shown they are not up to it. Desperate for the summer and need Speakman to allow the new coach to bring in a team. Not be buzzing with an assistant only.

Surely that's irrelevant though, we're not going to be relegated ...

... and he's only been asked to be caretaker for another few weeks.

It's not like at Birmingham, where Venus admitted he couldn't cope. They're actually in a relegation fight with relegation form. We're in an extended pre-season, getting players fit and trying out players like Alese.

 

[The Norton Cat]

I think if you look at Klopp and Pep and even Arteta you can see the innovative way they set up with a high press and quick tempo phases of play and how they have the whole club and not just the whole team buying into what they are trying to achieve, they are not all exactly the same but it is interesting to watch how they manipulate formations and tactics abd instill confidence. then look at teams like Brighton and Brentford who try and accommodate these principles but with maybe slightly less quality and still tend to out perform teams with more resources. Of English managers probably the bet examples would be Potter and (he who shall not be named as he manages up the road) another fella.
However if you look at the England manager (Southgate) he is definitely more defensive minded and not confident of his own squads ability to attack and kill teams of so he openly admits that he sets up defensively as historically more major tournaments have been won by teams with a defensive mindset. Problem with that is football has evolved and he is being left behind IMO. The Euro final against Italy for me really proved that. Had Klopp or Pep been in charge of that team there is no way we score 1 and then try and sit on that lead.
I think my point is we as a club need to innovate and not follow tried and tested formula's, we need to grow and we need new ideas even if it is a risk I think it is a risk worth taking.

Agree with pretty much all of that and especially with your last paragraph. I'm not sure it's possible to assume that any foreign coach is going to be more dynamic or forward thinking than a British coach. There tends to be this perception that age and Britishness brings with it a certain rigidity in approach and I'm not sure that's always accurate.

 

[OldNewtown]

The football has progressively got worse since TM left though, whilst both of the coaches have still been involved. And the football under Alex Neil wasn’t possession based like Mowbray so I don’t think we have a set in stone identity. There’s only really so many tactics/formations and then adaptations on those so it’s not as if we’re looking for a manager who plays in a 1 in 1000 style of football.

I don’t have anything against Dodds and Proctor I’m sure they’re both nice lads and half decent coaches at the beginning of their journey and they’ll only get better but in my opinion it would be better for the club and a much more attractable vacancy if we were to allow the new manager to bring in his own team.

I agree the standard of football has got worse, hence the reason the club acted and are seeking a new head coach.
People seem tied up with Dodd's and Proctor neither of whom were, or are, Head Coaches, they are just lads learning their trade, they may go on to be head coaches in future but are not ready yet.
As to allowing Coaches to bring in their own team, if this was successful why then do we see the likes of Ancelotti and Mourinho going from club to club to club along with their own team. They don't seem to last that long before being moved on. Yes, I know totally different standard to where we are, at the moment but hopefully you get my point,
I'm just looking for some growth, progress and continuity

 

[Iain]

Maybe Heckinbottom is more what we need, knows the league, knows how to get promotion out of it, might not be a "big" name, but if the average tenure of a coach is around 18 months, then if he does his job, gets us up then we move on is that a bad thing?

I wish clubs would start and look at the bigger picture and realise when managers hit bad spells it doesn't mean they need replacing.
Look at Robins at Coventry took him a couple of years to get out of L1 but he's been given time.
Look at Arteta, Arsenal were in free fall after he first joined, and Ferguson nearly got the sack early on.
All the successful managers have had sticky patches but the club has stuck with them.
Then again fans probably don't help that much as soon as a team loses 3 games they want a new manager in

 

[Chunksafc]

I wish clubs would start and look at the bigger picture and realise when managers hit bad spells it doesn't mean they need replacing.
Look at Robins at Coventry took him a couple of years to get out of L1 but he's been given time.
Look at Arteta, Arsenal were in free fall after he first joined, and Ferguson nearly got the sack early on.
All the successful managers have had sticky patches but the club has stuck with them.
Then again fans probably don't help that much as soon as a team loses 3 games they want a new manager in

I'd love nothing more than a head coach to come in and stay for years building and growing with the club, creating a real legacy for the future, but I don't think football really works like that at most clubs

 

[OldNewtown]

I wish clubs would start and look at the bigger picture and realise when managers hit bad spells it doesn't mean they need replacing.
Look at Robins at Coventry took him a couple of years to get out of L1 but he's been given time.
Look at Arteta, Arsenal were in free fall after he first joined, and Ferguson nearly got the sack early on.
All the successful managers have had sticky patches but the club has stuck with them.
Then again fans probably don't help that much as soon as a team loses 3 games they want a new manager in

Ferguson was clever though. Once he had established himself he changed his first team coach on a regular basis. The new coach brought new and fresh ideas whilst Ferguson provided the stability.

 

[Yes but no but]

I believe so, happy to be corrected though. All the players seem to enjoy their methods and coaching style and a fair few have improved under them.

It may be a case of them being pushed to the front too soon and they would be better served behind the scenes, but I do believe we have to allow a new coach to make that decision.

If he doesn't want them on the bench then drop them back to behind the scenes development.

Trouble is Dodds especially has been pushed front and centre and I'm not 100% sure he really wanted to be

I wasn’t really sure mate, proctor seemed to appear from nowhere onto the bench ha. If they’re good coaches etc let them be that, hopefully the new man is allowed to bring some people with him.

 

[The Norton Cat]

What about someone like Paul Clement? An older head than someone like Still, worked extensively in Britain, but also plenty of experience working abroad. Reputation still seems to be quite high as he was reported to be under consideration for the Ireland job recently. Might be considered to be both suitably dynamic and older and steady.

 

[Smug in Boots]

This is the sort of opinion I dont understand mate. Can you explain what are these modern outlooks foreign players have? It is lost on me. Similarly why you think Mowbray was a plodder? He is a coach who has likely forgotten more than Still, for example, has learned, yet all of a sudden these inexperienced lads are flavour of the month because they arent dour? I am up for being convinced, but as it stands I see a lad, in Still, who will struggle in this league and in Rigg we havr the most modern of players when compared to Adil or Ba for example. We are light years ahead in terms of player development in this country than france for example, in my opinion anyway. The challenge is for young lads from europe to step up when they come here, and we see it time and again.

Sorry, I wasn't ignoring this, it was after my bedtime ...

... quite a few points there but I'll do my best.

'Plodder' isn't about ability or knowledge, it's more about attitude. I've had enough of our managers taking the job then moaning about aspects of it when they struggle. And I cringed every time our managers mentioned how they can't communicate with the foreign lads, it makes us look stuck in the past. That's why the likes of Heckingbottom don't appeal tbh whereas Still, or someone like him whether British or foreign, would hopefully cope better. I've only said Still out of the options I've seen mentioned. The main two are him and Heckingbottom who I'd see as another Mowbray ... limited game plans and unreasonable favourites in the squad.

As to us being light years ahead of France, I'm not sure I see England winning a World Cup any time soon tbh. The best of English players seem to be from clubs with foreign managers so I'm not sure how much credit we deserve for that.

The main thing I want is someone with real fire and enthusiasm after the glum atmosphere with Mowbray, Neil, Beale, etc.

Whatever the case my wishes are irrelevant ...

... I've no say and have no fixed opinion either way.

I just want someone with the passion to match the supporters, not someone who looks bored at press conferences.

 

[Disco down under]

What about someone like Paul Clement? An older head than someone like Still, worked extensively in Britain, but also plenty of experience working abroad. Reputation still seems to be quite high as he was reported to be under consideration for the Ireland job recently. Might be considered to be both suitably dynamic and older and steady.

Just seen that Ancelloti's son has been his assistant for the best part of a decade.

Wonder if he is any good. If he wins 20% of what his dad has over the course of his career, he's head and shoulders above most.

 

[SAFC Wilks]

I always cast my mind to when we played some of the best football I have seen at Sunderland - last season under Mowbray.

Who did we have on the coaching bench? Dodds & Proctor.

It’s not a problem having them on the coaching team. The problem starts if a new man asks for 3-4 of his coaches to come and we go ‘no, only one.’ then the talks break down and we scrape the barrel again.

Rohl brought in 4 coaches and has completely transformed Sheff Wed (he’s the one I want), if he asks for 4 and we counter it with 1 he’ll tell us to **** right off.

Still might be an option if he’s only wanting his brother with him (assuming his brother is happy to move too). I’d be okay with him.

Heck doesn’t excite me in the slightest, an aura of Parkinson about him for me.

Rohl or Still please.

 

[Smug in Boots]

I always cast my mind to when we played some of the best football I have seen at Sunderland - last season under Mowbray.

Who did we have on the coaching bench? Dodds & Proctor.

It’s not a problem having them on the coaching team. The problem starts if a new man asks for 3-4 of his coaches to come and we go ‘no, only one.’ then the talks break down and we scrape the barrel again.

Rohl brought in 4 coaches and has completely transformed Sheff Wed (he’s the one I want), if he asks for 4 and we counter it with 1 he’ll tell us to **** right off.

Still might be an option if he’s only wanting his brother with him (assuming his brother is happy to move too). I’d be okay with him.

Heck doesn’t excite me in the slightest, an aura of Parkinson about him for me.

Rohl or Still please.

We have quite a few talented foreign players we're not making the most of imo, that needs to change.

One way to look at it is, would Heckingbottom be capable of moving to France and managing a L1 club.

TBH I think he'd struggle to move out of Yorkshire ...

... he only managed 9 months in Scotland

 

[SAFC Wilks]

We have quite a few talented foreign players we're not making the most of imo, that needs to change.

One way to look at it is, would Heckingbottom be capable of moving to France and managing a L1 club.

TBH I think he'd struggle to move out of Yorkshire ...

... he only managed 9 months in Scotland.

Good point. A lot of foreign players who may need different motivation techniques.

Still managing overseas gives him a plus point compared to Heck imo.

 

[Billy Batts]

Heard from somebody at the match Saturday, who has a good source apparently, that Speakman basically picks the team and has done for a while. Has been meddling with team selections the tail end of Mowbrays tenure aswell.

 

[RTB]

Heard from somebody at the match Saturday, who has a good source apparently, that Speakman basically picks the team and has done for a while. Has been meddling with team selections the tail end of Mowbrays tenure aswell.

Not this old chestnut again

 

[LD19SAFC]

Heard from somebody at the match Saturday, who has a good source apparently, that Speakman basically picks the team and has done for a while. Has been meddling with team selections the tail end of Mowbrays tenure aswell.

That wouldn’t come as a surprise, at all.

 

[The Norton Cat]

Just seen that Ancelloti's son has been his assistant for the best part of a decade.

Wonder if he is any good. If he wins 20% of what his dad has over the course of his career, he's head and shoulders above most.

Can't say I know a lot about Davide Ancelotti but I've just had a little read up on him. Seems he's very much seen as an equal partner with his dad, which suggests he's got something about him.

What I did find interesting was that he worked very closely with Duncan Ferguson, who was also an assistant during the Ancelottis' time at Everton, and who had been at the club for approximately 5 years before they arrived. It wasn't a problem for them that an existing member of the coaching staff had to be incorporated into their team.