I put Mingulay to start with but was just a bit worried they could island hop back to the mainland. Hirta would be more of a challenge I believe ?
Off Topic Migrant crisis
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I prefer a good ol’ cockney knees up meself, but I can certainly appreciate a good, traditional Scottish (or any British) folk song.
Sadly that traditional Britain is fast disappearing, thanks to our political leaders.
Folk music has never been mainstream. I've been inlove with it since the folk revival of the 1960's, with the smoke-filled rooms. There emerged some wonderful musicians and bands, and only 2 weeks ago saw Wizz Jones, a leading light then and fine guitarist, now in his early 80's, at a local club. Traditional songs also provide an interesting social history.
Sadly I think the UK should be looking to secure the English Channel by military means, for the long term future.
Not just because of the illegal boat crossings.
Our defensive strength was always in our Navy.
We are in a position to defend our borders in a way that very few other Countries are.
We should take full advantage of that strength.
Not just because of the illegal boat crossings.
Our defensive strength was always in our Navy.
We are in a position to defend our borders in a way that very few other Countries are.
We should take full advantage of that strength.
Sadly I have to agree with Lardi. It seems to me the only way to 'stop the boats' is to literally do that. Doing such a thing would no doubt be met with hand ringing by the left and legal profession. As has been said earlier I've always wondered why we haven't built a facility like the POW camps we used during the war in some inhospitable place. My parents in laws worked in one in North Yorkshire. The Italians there were more than happy they didn't want anything to do with Mussolini and I understand the food was quite good.
I think your metamorphosis to ‘hard right’ is almost complete Lardi.
Although what you suggest, isn’t actually ‘hard right’ at all. It’s simply a logical and necessary step until and unless we can have an immediate returns agreement with France.
If the UK and France agreed next week that anyone arriving illegally in the UK by small boat from France, was returned to France within 8 hours, the problem would go away virtually overnight. It would be better for France in the long run as well, as there’d no longer be any point in tens of thousands of illegal immigrants entering that country with the intention of travelling through it to reach the promised land.
So why isn’t this happening ?
It doesn't take the brains of a rocking horse to see that cooperation between us and France would be damaged by B****t. "Take back Control", yea right.
Absolutely nothing to do with Brexit.
As convenient as it might be for remainers to try to blame Brexit, this far pre-dates the biggest democratic decision this country has ever taken I’m afraid.
Didn't we have the Dublin agreement when we were in the EU, which enabled us to return them to France? Brexit meant the EU were allowed to tear up the agreement, which we could have vetoed.
Ah yes, the good old Dublin agreement, whose much lamented passing is so often quoted as evidence of what a dreadful mistake Brexit was.
I think the last figures for transfers under the Dublin agreement were about 1,200 people IN to the UK and about 200 people OUT of the UK (about 50 out to France).
Not quite the riveting success it is made out to be by remainers really is it ?
But at least I understand Smudger’s picture and post now - it’s asylum seekers coming back into the UK under the Dublin agreement isn’t it Smudge
Some light reading for anyone struggling to get to sleep at night, about the effectiveness of the Dublin Agreement in reducing asylum seeker numbers to the UK……
The recent outcome
2. The UK has participated in the Dublin process since it was inaugurated in 1990. Its most recent iteration - Regulation 604/2013 (Dublin III) - decides which nation is responsible for processing asylum claims. A hierarchy of considerations, including whether minor claimants have family in the UK and the first EU country of arrival, are to be taken into account (for more, read our paper: 'Asylum and the European Union - The Dublin Regulations'). The effectiveness of the system from the UK’s point of view has declined dramatically in recent years. Home Office statistics reveal that, while there were a total of 676 returns of asylum seekers from the UK to other European countries under the rules in 2016 and 2017, 1,019 asylum seekers were transferred to the UK. The figures reveal that the balance has shifted since 2015, when 131 people were transferred to the UK, against 510 people who transferred out.
Table 1: Transfers in to the UK and out of the UK under the Dublin regulation
Year Transfers in to the UK Transfers out of the UK
2015 131 510
2016 558 362
2017 461 314
3. Even more strikingly, the Dublin Regulation inflow to the UK in the year 2018 was nearly six times the outflow. As the Home Office noted in February 2019: "There were 1,215 transfers into the UK under the Dublin Regulation. The majority (946) of these transfers came from Greece. There were just 209 transfers out of the UK under the Dublin Regulation. A quarter of these (51) were transfers to France."
4. The figures show that a larger number of transfers to the UK during the period were under articles 8 and 9 of the Regulation. These stipulate that, under certain conditions, the applications of some of those in EU countries, whose relatives are already in the UK, should be dealt with by the UK. In contrast, a larger number transfers out were under Article 13, which mandates that asylum seekers who move on after being registered in a country of first arrival can be returned to that country. It was also revealed that the 2017 figures of 461 transfers in (against 314 transfers out) came despite the fact that there were over twice as many requests under the Dublin rules to transfer out (5,712) than requests to transfer asylum seekers into the UK (2,137).
The recent outcome
2. The UK has participated in the Dublin process since it was inaugurated in 1990. Its most recent iteration - Regulation 604/2013 (Dublin III) - decides which nation is responsible for processing asylum claims. A hierarchy of considerations, including whether minor claimants have family in the UK and the first EU country of arrival, are to be taken into account (for more, read our paper: 'Asylum and the European Union - The Dublin Regulations'). The effectiveness of the system from the UK’s point of view has declined dramatically in recent years. Home Office statistics reveal that, while there were a total of 676 returns of asylum seekers from the UK to other European countries under the rules in 2016 and 2017, 1,019 asylum seekers were transferred to the UK. The figures reveal that the balance has shifted since 2015, when 131 people were transferred to the UK, against 510 people who transferred out.
Table 1: Transfers in to the UK and out of the UK under the Dublin regulation
Year Transfers in to the UK Transfers out of the UK
2015 131 510
2016 558 362
2017 461 314
3. Even more strikingly, the Dublin Regulation inflow to the UK in the year 2018 was nearly six times the outflow. As the Home Office noted in February 2019: "There were 1,215 transfers into the UK under the Dublin Regulation. The majority (946) of these transfers came from Greece. There were just 209 transfers out of the UK under the Dublin Regulation. A quarter of these (51) were transfers to France."
4. The figures show that a larger number of transfers to the UK during the period were under articles 8 and 9 of the Regulation. These stipulate that, under certain conditions, the applications of some of those in EU countries, whose relatives are already in the UK, should be dealt with by the UK. In contrast, a larger number transfers out were under Article 13, which mandates that asylum seekers who move on after being registered in a country of first arrival can be returned to that country. It was also revealed that the 2017 figures of 461 transfers in (against 314 transfers out) came despite the fact that there were over twice as many requests under the Dublin rules to transfer out (5,712) than requests to transfer asylum seekers into the UK (2,137).
We took in 1215 out of 1940 requests. The EU took in 209 out of 5510 requests from us.Ah yes, the good old Dublin agreement, whose much lamented passing is so often quoted as evidence of what a dreadful mistake Brexit was.
I think the last figures for transfers under the Dublin agreement were about 1,200 people IN to the UK and about 200 people OUT of the UK (about 50 out to France).
Not quite the riveting success it is made out to be by remainers really is it ?
But at least I understand Smudger’s picture and post now - it’s asylum seekers coming back into the UK under the Dublin agreement isn’t it Smudge
Yep, that’s the way the good ol’ EU works……We took in 1215 out of 1940 requests. The EU took in 209 out of 5510 requests from us.
I take no satisfaction, or get any sense of being morally justified, in posting the thing's I've posted since that tragedy when five people including a little girl lost their lives so needlessly.
But when I look at the bigger picture all I can see is what is bad now simply getting worse and worse.
To my dismay find myself in agreement with the way Suella Braverman sees things, although I would never express myself the way she does.
And even more regrettably, I think the policies she supports, including the Rwanda policy, are only going to prove completely ineffective.
The cost of them will be wasted money, but having said that there is no cheap way to mitigate the situation.
And I still maintain that there are at this moment other problems facing our Country which are causing suffering and wretched quality of life for a much greater number of people who don't deserve it.
But the two matters of mass migration and climate disaster (which are inextricable) will grow within a few years (a decade or two at most) to dwarf all of the current troubles we face here in the UK. And what is worse, these twin problems are the only ones for which there are no viable solutions.
The NHS, cost of living, housing, policing, education, inequality and injustice questions can all be resolved by conventional means, eventually.
But the Global Climate will continue to outrun any hope of moderation, and with it, uncounted millions will flee their homes while millions more die.
So what can we do?
Begin protecting ourselves. Now.
Among all the Western Countries, channels for legal migration and help for refugees must be addressed and expanded as never before.
And illegal migration - especially across the Mediterranean and the English Channel - must be stopped.
Not discouraged or deterred.
Stopped.
The World is changing forever, and it is never going back to the way it was.
We can either manage the change and save as many people as we can, or that change will destroy us.
What we must not allow this World change to do, is change us into callous, heartless brutes.
If we dehumanise ourselves to the point where we care nothing for those who die, then we will be monsters and our cultures will not deserve to survive.
We are going to have to do some terrible, chilling things in years to come.
Or our children will, maybe after we have gone.
But they should never act with hate in their hearts. We have to make them understand that.
But when I look at the bigger picture all I can see is what is bad now simply getting worse and worse.
To my dismay find myself in agreement with the way Suella Braverman sees things, although I would never express myself the way she does.
And even more regrettably, I think the policies she supports, including the Rwanda policy, are only going to prove completely ineffective.
The cost of them will be wasted money, but having said that there is no cheap way to mitigate the situation.
And I still maintain that there are at this moment other problems facing our Country which are causing suffering and wretched quality of life for a much greater number of people who don't deserve it.
But the two matters of mass migration and climate disaster (which are inextricable) will grow within a few years (a decade or two at most) to dwarf all of the current troubles we face here in the UK. And what is worse, these twin problems are the only ones for which there are no viable solutions.
The NHS, cost of living, housing, policing, education, inequality and injustice questions can all be resolved by conventional means, eventually.
But the Global Climate will continue to outrun any hope of moderation, and with it, uncounted millions will flee their homes while millions more die.
So what can we do?
Begin protecting ourselves. Now.
Among all the Western Countries, channels for legal migration and help for refugees must be addressed and expanded as never before.
And illegal migration - especially across the Mediterranean and the English Channel - must be stopped.
Not discouraged or deterred.
Stopped.
The World is changing forever, and it is never going back to the way it was.
We can either manage the change and save as many people as we can, or that change will destroy us.
What we must not allow this World change to do, is change us into callous, heartless brutes.
If we dehumanise ourselves to the point where we care nothing for those who die, then we will be monsters and our cultures will not deserve to survive.
We are going to have to do some terrible, chilling things in years to come.
Or our children will, maybe after we have gone.
But they should never act with hate in their hearts. We have to make them understand that.
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I really wish environmentalists were not such a tiny minority. It's normal to take no interest unfortunately, and not read about what's happening. The info has always been out there, but so have the lies. And the lies are more comforting.
The more people who come round to realising that mass immigration to this country is the biggest and most immediate threat to our way of life the better. I think we on here, have a few differences of opinion about the warming of our planet but the thing is, whether you call it natural warming, an inevitable consequence of our modern way of life or a climate emergency, it doesn’t matter.
The current problem we have with mass immigration is nothing to do with the earths climate.
It is just about the economic movement of people who want, and are now able, to move across the globe so that they can have what they perceive to be a better life, plus some who are fleeing wars. Wars which are largely about religion, not the warming of our planet.
Mass migration due to the climate, may or may not increase in years to come. But the economic movement is happening now.
We need a government who will do what is necessary to stop it, or at least drastically reduce it.
The Tories are the closest of the big three, but they are nowhere near committed enough to bring in the measures needed, so in effect they are no better than Labour or the Lib Dem’s.
It’s up to the people of the UK to wake up and realise what is happening and to bring about change, but therein lies the problem at the moment. Not enough people do realise.
The current problem we have with mass immigration is nothing to do with the earths climate.
It is just about the economic movement of people who want, and are now able, to move across the globe so that they can have what they perceive to be a better life, plus some who are fleeing wars. Wars which are largely about religion, not the warming of our planet.
Mass migration due to the climate, may or may not increase in years to come. But the economic movement is happening now.
We need a government who will do what is necessary to stop it, or at least drastically reduce it.
The Tories are the closest of the big three, but they are nowhere near committed enough to bring in the measures needed, so in effect they are no better than Labour or the Lib Dem’s.
It’s up to the people of the UK to wake up and realise what is happening and to bring about change, but therein lies the problem at the moment. Not enough people do realise.
My speculation was largely long term.
The causes at present are beside the point as far as I'm concerned.
We should be taking action now to anticipate the coming future.
But we seem to be incapable of planning further than a couple of years ahead.
Ambitious long term targets are regularly abandoned as time passes and it becomes clear not enough has been done to hit them.
I guess nothing will change, however much we do this
Personally I'm going to try to enjoy the time I have left. Maybe Charlton can get back to being a potent Championship Club again before I check out, or before the Apocalypse (whichever comes first)
The causes at present are beside the point as far as I'm concerned.
We should be taking action now to anticipate the coming future.
But we seem to be incapable of planning further than a couple of years ahead.
Ambitious long term targets are regularly abandoned as time passes and it becomes clear not enough has been done to hit them.
I guess nothing will change, however much we do this
Personally I'm going to try to enjoy the time I have left. Maybe Charlton can get back to being a potent Championship Club again before I check out, or before the Apocalypse (whichever comes first)
Never mind!My speculation was largely long term.
The causes at present are beside the point as far as I'm concerned.
We should be taking action now to anticipate the coming future.
But we seem to be incapable of planning further than a couple of years ahead.
Ambitious long term targets are regularly abandoned as time passes and it becomes clear not enough has been done to hit them.
I guess nothing will change, however much we do this
Personally I'm going to try to enjoy the time I have left. Maybe Charlton can get back to being a potent Championship Club again before I check out, or before the Apocalypse (whichever comes first)
It’s not just us getting the hump!
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/irel...ion-protests-erupt-in-county-wicklow-13123193
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/irel...ion-protests-erupt-in-county-wicklow-13123193