Off Topic Migrant crisis

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lardiman said:
Genuine question: Is Robert Jenrick a halfwit?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67622998

Migrant workers do all the thankless low esteem & low pay jobs because British workers won't do them.
Our own people are hardly likely to jump at the 300,000 new vacancies just because he says they will.
What part of that reality can't he grasp?
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What a mess. The whole immigration debate has become so toxic that the only thing that matters to this government is numbers. Not those who need social care, they will be victims of this callous shambles of a government. The sense of drift is similar to Callaghan's government, which led to 18 years of Tory rule.
 
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The Penguin said:
200 British-trained Afghan troops face expulsion from Pakistan, and will face an uncertain future at the hands of the Taliban when they return. We have a moral duty to accept them here, we put them in their situation, but it seems we won't. Poor show.
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It's nothing short of a betrayal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67663888

The Taliban will murder those poor men and their families.
Whoever is responsible for refusing to take those soldiers in should be ashamed of themselves.
I'd be proud to have them serve in the British Army.
I hope enough fuss is kicked up about this to force the cowardly pen-pushers to reverse their decision.
Forget Rwanda Rishi - and sort this out.
 
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The Penguin said:
200 British-trained Afghan troops face expulsion from Pakistan, and will face an uncertain future at the hands of the Taliban when they return. We have a moral duty to accept them here, we put them in their situation, but it seems we won't. Poor show.
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If there is good evidence that these men are indeed who they say they are (and that is vital I’m afraid) then they should indeed be given the right to come here. Does anyone know the reasoning behind the refusal ? Presumably there are reasons which have been given ?

What an absolutely appalling decision it was by the government of the time to allow us to get involved in this lawless country.

Anyone with an iota of sense could see how it would end. And yet those who were responsible for this travesty, for the deaths of thousands of western troops, thousands of civilians, a breakdown of a system which had nothing to do with us and which we couldn’t in any event change, now live the life of luxury and riches, preaching to others about right and wrong.

That is the bigger injustice.
 
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lardiman said:
On a related subject, I think if Trump becomes President again in 2024, or even if another Republican wins and decides to cut military aid to Ukraine, I think we should reconsider the special relationship.

If the USA abandons Ukraine, Britain must not sheepishly follow suit.
Even if we cannot prevent Putin taking the whole country, we should offer sanctuary to as many free Ukrainians as we can, and offer to host their Government in Exile here in the UK.

With Trump or a Trump acolyte in the Oval Office, possibly for 8 years or longer, the UK will have to stand alone.
The US will become Isolationist (apart from supporting Israel and squaring up to China in the Pacific). We will have to hope that France and Germany will still have the will to support NATO in Europe.
If they won't, the Baltic States and Poland will likely follow Ukraine and fall into Putin's new Russian Empire.
And we'll see millions of European refugees streaming Westwards.
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No thanks.

Millions of Ukrainians coming to this country with our current issues……lack of housing, overcrowding, failing NHS, failing public services, crumbling roads, inability to get doctors appointments, record waiting lists for operations, overwhelmed mental health services, soaring violent crime ?

It’s harsh but we simply can’t be the destination of choice for any displaced people from around the globe.

And I don’t think that NATO countries would fall under Russian control. That’s Ukraines problem - they didn’t want to meet the conditions to join NATO before the invasion.
 
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The right-wing group of Tory MP'S, who are threatening to vote against the Rwanda bill because it doesn't go far enough, will scupper any chance of it working if they go ahead. Their real motive is probably to oust Sunak. They want Boris back, with Farage besides, but since neither is an MP they would end up with some party drone.
 
Even if Rishi got a couple of hundred migrants onto a plane to Rwanda, it won't act as a deterrent.

200 is 0.5% of the 40,000 who arrived in small boats last year.
People will believe they can be one of the 99.5% who'll be able to stay in the UK.

The Rwanda policy is not only useless, it is irrelevant and self destructive.
And morally repugnant.
It's a quasi-Nazi policy in my opinion and I cannot believe it has been so normalised by endless debate.
 
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The real problem is that there are too many hell-holes, and there will be more as the years pass. I wish I could believe that there was an answer.
 
We should have invested the Rwanda money in a fleet of 200 (minimum) Coast Guard patrol vessels, which would form a continuous barrier across the English Channel. Any migrant vessel would be intercepted, those aboard taken in (and given emergency treatment if needed) and then be taken back to France.
Building and operating such a fleet would create thousands of jobs for years to come.

OK, we might have to invest 2 or 3 £billion in such a project, but if properly implemented it should cut illegal boat crossings to 1% of what they are now.
And as soon as people understand that getting into a small boat will not get them into the UK, just back to the French coast, people will stop getting into those boats.

Such a force of patrol vessels would also be invaluable in preventing drug smuggling, or rescuing mariners in distress etc.
They would send out the strongest message that the UK will defend its borders against all wrongdoers.
An the way World politics is going, we will need to send such a message.
I'm afraid that in the long term, War is coming.
We need to begin to get on a War footing.
 
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Another ten years of utter madness on the cards, according to the experts.

Another ten years of dangerous individuals washing up on our shores, soon to be housed in luxury hotels and spas.

How many innocents (particularly women) will have their lives destroyed because of our weak, feckless leaders?

Blood on hands. Lots of blood. Lots of hands.

I'm ashamed of what we've become. Pathetic and spineless. A once great nation on its knees.
 
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Unfortunately we live in a parliamentary democracy, not a true democracy where we could elect leaders who then carry out our will.

I literally do not know a single person who isn’t concerned about immigration and in particular the thought that people can enter and stay in the country having destroyed all their identity documents so that we do not have the remotest idea who they really are.

To call anyone who wants something done to stop that, an extremist or xenophobe is bizarre and literally incorrect. But this is the way this country now works. Anyone who tries to tell the truth, if it goes against a woke, left wing ideology is branded. In a way you have to admire those who have brought this about - they have managed to maintain the illusion of democracy, whilst ensuring that their ideology prevails over the concerns of the vast majority.

It is the failure of our elected leaders and liberal judiciary, to carry out our wishes, which means that this issue is not being tackled.

Whilst I can at least recognise the success of the liberals, I’m afraid that their success is sending this country down the toilet.
 
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Well I can give you a few dozen people who aren't concerned about immigration at all - our Government.
They talk tough and present us with gimmicks.
And all the while net migration goes up and up and up.

Ministers behave as though somebody else has been responsible for the last 13 years. Not them.
Who oversaw the highest migration figures ever? The Pixies? The tooth fairy?
No. It was the Tories.
And their big ideas now are to disappear a few hundred people to East Africa and tear up Human rights laws.
They have failed to provide legal avenues for asylum, so it's hardly surprising that people are forced to use illegal means, or that criminal gangs prey on them.

So let's turn cruelty and dehumanisation into popular pastimes.
Let's blame migrants for the failures of our pampered, privileged ruling class.
Sacrifice the care system and the NHS to satisfy the headline writers of the Mail and the Express.
The owners of which rags are the real puppet masters in this country.
 
I was heartened to hear on the news that Rishi Sunak's personal popularity as PM has slumped since he became obsessed with his Rwanda policy, and appearing behind lecterns with 'STOP THE BOATS' plastered on them.

Lecterns with dumbed down slogans became popular with politicians during the Pandemic. They seemed to believe the slogans would convey a simple message to the simple minded masses.
But when I see messages like 'STOP THE BOATS' I am reminded of the moronic slogans chanted by Trump supporters at his rallies.
'SEND THEM BACK' being the most memorable one, aimed at a couple of female US politicians of ethnic origins who had criticised the Donald.

I won't deny that millions of people in the UK, maybe even a majority, are concerned about uncontrolled and / or illegal immigration.
I'm concerned about it myself.

But I think Rishi Sunak is seriously mistaken if he believes that his unceasing legal & parliamentary wrangling to get some migrants flown to Rwanda makes him appear strong or tough or resolute in the eyes of vast numbers of British people.
It makes him appear mean and heartless and cold-blooded.
His words do not make people feel better about him, or better about themselves.
And that is one big reason why his personal popularity has nose-dived.

Sunak is barely more popular than Boris Johnson was in the last few weeks before Johnson was forced out of office.
That fact restores my faith a little in our People.
I believe the way he comports himself makes them feel ashamed that he speaks in their names.
 
There won't be any beautiful Kent countryside in years to come. It'll be destroyed by countless housing estates and bypasses, all built to cater for the 750k who swarm into the country each year.

To suggest there are not enough legal routes into the country is pure madness. 750,000 net managed to find their way here last year. The fact is, there are too many legal routes into this nation.
 
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My reference to the lack of legal routes was regarding refugees / asylum seekers.

The 750,000 legal migrants last year were not asylum seekers.
Most of them came to the UK to work in the NHS or Social Care system. They were not fleeing persecution, but simply coming to Britain to do jobs that British people don't want to do - and to earn the right to improve their lives and the lives of their families by hard and thankless work.
Hundreds of thousands of others were students coming to UK Universities.
Fee paying students who provide a net benefit to the British economy.

The Government has now proudly announced it will cut migrant carers / NHS workers / students by 300,000 by restricting their rights.
Basically, telling them that they are no longer welcome.

That won't affect anybody in the Government of course, as most of them are millionaires and have access to the cream of private health & social care.
But slashing the recruitment of low paid workers for the NHS and social care for elderly and vulnerable poor folk will devastate those services.
Of course, that doesn't matter to the likes of Cleverly and Sunak.
All they want to do is crow about cutting net migration.
 
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Simply put, we take in too many people. This country cannot sustain 750k net migration per year. Our services are creaking.

This government needs to find a way of getting the indigenous workshy off of benefits and into work - the jobs that are currently filled with foreign labour. I don't think anyone is against the migrants who come to serve this nation, but people do mind when they come to commit crime and defraud the system.

How many should we take in each year? A million? Two million?
 
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