Michael Collins

[RobSpur]

right so here's your list then (I didn't see it in you post before).

experiences = 800 years of assimilation

expectations and socio-economic status = Britain gave similar economic status to Ireland. that was the point of the union. Ireland shared the british empire and the rewards of it, with the rest of the uk.

qualifications = everyone on both islands was qualified as british.

ancestry = so you are now saying it is relevant ? as shown above, there is a shared ancestory.

culture (e.g. religion, customs and language) = same religion, same customs, same language.

nationality = all british/uk

geography = both in the british isles



there we go then

have you got anything else, because based on that it looks like we're the same country

 

[Vilsmeier-Haack Reaction]

it doesn't look bad at all.

both votes were on whether to change the status quo.

the vote in the north was whether to legally and democratically leave the united kingdom. the republicans didn't want the truth to be known so they tried to impose a boycott. in spite of the boycott, and in spite of the intimidation and threats to blow up polling stations, nearly 60% of the entire electorate voted in favour of remaining in the uk - some 98% of votes cast.

in contrast, the vote in the south was not recognised by the constitution. it was technically an undemocratic vote, as recognised by William Cosgrave in 1931. notwithstanding that, it was a vote on whether to take the monumental step of leaving the british empire. this step that legend today tells us the whole of ireland was desperate to achieve. compared to the 98% of votes cast in th north who voted in favour of staying in the uk though, 56% of votes in the south were in favour of leaving, which equated to 38% of the electorate. 38% in a free election, compared to the 60% the other way in the north inspite of the republicans attempt to boycott and disrupt the northern election. there's no comparison atall. it's a pathetic turn out, and a pathetic result. where were the hoardes of irishers desperate to get away from the evil british ? they were stuck at home without a care in the world. 38% of people who could have voted to leave the british empire did so. I in 3 of catholic southern Ireland. how is that a mandate for independence ? it's not; it's a sham. just as sinn fein tried to illegally declare independence without a mandate in 1918, they did it again after 1937. they couldn't even get the pope to endorse it.

I said it "links back" you ***** not "looks bad" and you have proved how it does link back and how you change the argument to suit your demented point of view.
You claim the 98.9% to be a massive victory yet ignore the impact of the boycott (called for by the SDLP, not the IRA. Another humiliating oversight on your part) and a major cause of the boycott as nationalists were still campaigning for "one man one vote" at this stage further invalidating the "landslide majority"

You cant have it both ways, either recognise the result of both referendums consider them both invalid for stated behind the scenes reasons. You cannot pick and choose.

Also Sinn Fein did **** all in 1937, it was Fianna Fail. Another humiliating fail. You really need to start getting the details right

 

[RobSpur]

I take it you're not familiar with Yeats or God forbid reading a Irish poet was beneath you but Yeats wrote wonderful poetry about the first 20 years in the 20th century and did a fantastic job documenting that period but each to their own.

reading an irish poet wouldn't be beneath me at all. some of the finest people in the united kingdom and the british empire were Irishmen. I have no problem with irish poetry per se, I have difficulty with people who believe the weepy weepy tale of the poor invaded irish people who were desperate to get rid of the awful british and who voted them out unanimously as soon as they had the chance. cry me a fakin river.

 

[Vilsmeier-Haack Reaction]

right so here's your list then (I didn't see it in you post before).

experiences = 800 years of assimilation No assimilation, the indigenous people were forced off their land and persecuted thereafter

expectations and socio-economic status = Britain gave similar economic status to Ireland. that was the point of the union. Ireland shared the british empire and the rewards of it, with the rest of the uk. No, Ireland took the course of an economic backwater as the British used is as an agricultural base to feed the colonial armies. The republic has escaped this to become one of the most developed nations while NI continues as a relative economic backwater

qualifications = everyone on both islands was qualified as british. Just because you start calling someone British doesnt make it so

ancestry = so you are now saying it is relevant ? as shown above, there is a shared ancestory. What shared ancestry? As pointed out, discrimination, seperation and persecution

culture (e.g. religion, customs and language) = same religion, same customs, same language. Nope, Anglicans persecuting Catholics and imposing their own language by force under punishment of death.

nationality = all british/uk Irish of Celt decent, British of Anglo-Saxon and Norman descent.

geography = both in the british isles Just because you call and island British doesnt make it so. British isles is a simplistic term invented by ....... The British. Nope, Britain and Ireland as seperate entities



there we go then

have you got anything else, because based on that it looks like we're the same country

Anything else bigot?

 

[RobSpur]

I said it "links back" you ***** not "looks bad" and you have proved how it does link back and how you change the argument to suit your demented point of view.
You claim the 98.9% to be a massive victory yet ignore the impact of the boycott (called for by the SDLP, not the IRA. Another humiliating oversight on your part) and a major cause of the boycott as nationalists were still campaigning for "one man one vote" at this stage further invalidating the "landslide majority"

You cant have it both ways, either recognise the result of both referendums consider them both invalid for stated behind the scenes reasons. You cannot pick and choose.

Also Sinn Fein did **** all in 1937, it was Fianna Fail. Another humiliating fail. You really need to start getting the details right

sinn fein/fianna fail was basically the same thing people called the easter rising the sinn fein rising when they didn't have anything to do with it. it's all the same difference. bunch of backward provos who've nothing better to do - what does it matter what you call them ?

regarding me choosing 1 vote but not the other, I can if I want because one was lawful and the other wasn't, and because in one 98% of those who hadn't been intimidated out of voting voted the same way, and in the other just over 50% of those who bothered to vote voted the same way.

if you're saying it's a question of both or neither of them though then it would be neither because one of them was meaningless and the other just kept the status quo. on that basis everyone in Ireland would still owe an allegiance to the Queen, as they should by law and right anyway.

 

[Vilsmeier-Haack Reaction]

you've shown my gene map to be inaccurate ? it's a fackin scientific study ? how the fak can you show it to be inaccurate ?

"what defines ethnicity and as a result nationality" ? what's that supposed to mean ?

I don't need to check, that's the point. I know that Ireland has no right to be an independent country, and that there is no reason why Ireland should be an independent country.

you seem to think differently. i'm asking you on what basis. you must have some reasons ?

I can't check what your reasons are can I ? that's why im asking you

come on, explain yourself. what is the justification for ireland to be an independent country ?

I have pointed out the flaws in their sampling methodology. I dont see any peer review on the study.

Justification for Ireland, of Celtic descent, different cultures, customs, language, religion that the occupying British attempted to destroy but have managed to be continued on regardless, oh and a democratic majority. Hows that?
Like it or not that democratic majority is soon to rear its head in NI. Then the fun begins

 

[Vilsmeier-Haack Reaction]

sinn fein/fianna fail was basically the same thing people called the easter rising the sinn fein rising when they didn't have anything to do with it. it's all the same difference. bunch of backward provos who've nothing better to do - what does it matter what you call them ?

regarding me choosing 1 vote but not the other, I can if I want because one was lawful and the other wasn't, and because in one 98% of those who hadn't been intimidated out of voting voted the same way, and in the other just over 50% of those who bothered to vote voted the same way.

if you're saying it's a question of both or neither of them though then it would be neither because one of them was meaningless and the other just kept the status quo. on that basis everyone in Ireland would still owe an allegiance to the Queen, as they should by law and right anyway.

Stopped reading there you raging bigot. Provos formed in 1969, have never had any connection the IRA of the 1920s. Im honestly going to stop it here as your bitterness and barely disguised bigoted and sectarianism has shown you up more than the dismantling of your misinformation ever could. I have things planned for tomorrow, good night

 

[RobSpur]

I have pointed out the flaws in their sampling methodology. I dont see any peer review on the study.

Justification for Ireland, of Celtic descent, different cultures, customs, language, religion that the occupying British attempted to destroy but have managed to be continued on regardless, oh and a democratic majority. Hows that?
Like it or not that democratic majority is soon to rear its head in NI. Then the fun begins

You said earlier that genetics wasn't a factor, now you're saying it is a factor, but as we saw earlier, the east of Ireland (at least) is the same genetically as England.

Are you now saying that only the west of Ireland should be independent ?

as regards to the british trying to destroy the religion in Ireland, that's got to be some kind of joke. paganism was practised in Ireland until the English introduced Catholicism. so, we later got a bit picky about whether people called themselves protestant or catholic. it doesn't make any difference anyway, it's basically the same thing.

 

[RobSpur]

Anyway, it was interesting talking it over with you gents. Good night.

 

[Vilsmeier-Haack Reaction]

You said earlier that genetics wasn't a factor, now you're saying it is a factor

No, I basically queried who had mentioned geneaology as you kept bringing up your pathetic map

but as we saw earlier, the east of Ireland (at least) is the same genetically as England.

Replace "East" with Dublin, and "same" with similar

Are you now saying that only the west of Ireland should be independent ?

No, at no point was anything of the sort inferred as geneaology is one constituent of a range of factors, oh and Dublin recorded the highest support for the 1937 constitution at around 67%. A nice little democratic majority

as regards to the british trying to destroy the religion in Ireland, that's got to be some kind of joke.

I take it you have not read up on the Penal Laws

paganism was practised in Ireland until the English introduced Catholicism.

the English did not introduce Catholicism as England did not exist at the time

so, we later got a bit picky about whether people called themselves protestant or catholic. it doesn't make any difference anyway, it's basically the same thing.

Do not brush over the persecution and misery caused by british impositions on the island as "getting picky" over religion. The getting picky was initiated by the British in an attempt to impose the Anglican doctrine


Oiche mhaith Rob

 

[RobSpur]

i list a whole post ive typed out before getting prompted to log in.

re your claim to have built one of the world's best economies or whatevr your claim was. you were given a free country on a plate. with buiidings infrastructure, everything. for free. we then paid you millions of pounds a year through the 1920s to give you a bit of a start. somehow you managed to go bankrupt, and came back to us cap in hand for a bailout because - like your history - your whole economy was a total sham. how you call that a success i dont know. it makes greece look like an economic miracle.

 

[RobSpur]

No, I basically queried who had mentioned geneaology as you kept bringing up your pathetic map



Replace "East" with Dublin, and "same" with similar




No, at no point was anything of the sort inferred as geneaology is one constituent of a range of factors, oh and Dublin recorded the highest support for the 1937 constitution at around 67%. A nice little democratic majority



I take it you have not read up on the Penal Laws



the English did not introduce Catholicism as England did not exist at the time



Do not brush over the persecution and misery caused by british impositions on the island as "getting picky" over religion. The getting picky was initiated by the British in an attempt to impose the Anglican doctrine


Oiche mhaith Rob

1. it was brought up by others. i responded to that. you then said it wasnt relevant but then when i asked why you thought ireland should be a seperate country you brought it up again

2. almost identical. and it's not just dublin. we have identical original ancestory, and most of ireland shares recent ansestory with england as well.

3. the highest support for the constitution 67% most whole countries vote about 90% plus for those things, and you had a highest areas of 67% . these are the same people who spat on and heckled those involved in the easter rising. they probably only voted so they could get out of the upcoming war with the nzais, just as those in the rising had been the only ones who didnt go off to fight the germans in ww1 and instead tried to arrange an invasion by the germans

4. catholic/proestant makes no difference. same thing. christian v pagan big difference.

5. it wasnt called england when patrick took christianity to ireland for the first time, but it was when we had to reintroduce it in the early 12th century after it had died out

6. again, catholic, protestant, it makes no difference. that is not grounds to have a separate country.

 

[RobSpur]

Oiche mhaith

 

[A.L.D.O 4.1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rA2-6ZlOXeg

 

[nobody in particular]

I didnt read all this although I did see some inaccuracies

the provos in 1937

thry joined forces with al qaida in 1954 as far as I can remember.

 

[A.L.D.O 4.1]

I didnt read all this although I did see some inaccuracies

the provos in 1937

thry joined forces with al qaida in 1954 as far as I can remember.

You can remember 1954 ? **** your old .

 

[nobody in particular]

You can remember 1954 ? **** your old .

you cant remember 6 minutes to 8 ? **** youre senile

 

[nobody in particular]

robspur ...do you know what a hedge school was ?

 

[Toby]

Jakey's lonely friday nights

 

[nobody in particular]

up da ra

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