McLaren ruining Hamilton

[WestCoastBoogaloo]

Two things here, in Q2 as FF says it was 11-6 and Alonso out raced him too, in a time where there was less overtaking. He had his team against him too.

Anyway back to the matter, he is a skilled driver. But for me thats about it. Him in the press conferences (before Monaco) I found a bit fake and he always gets his team to think of strategy for him and blames the team when he doesnt get his own way.

Without trying to turn this into a Ham-Alo argument, Q3 back then wasnt a good indicator due to unknown fuel levels. Q2 was a better indicator, where Alonso beat him 11-6 (5-0 before Monaco 07). When it comes to qualifying, Hamilton may have this rep for being fast, but Alonso is just as good if not better.

On the original topic, I think a season or two in a midfield team and Hamiltons attitude will improve and his agression on the track will be more controlled - which ultimately will make him a better driver.

Surely the whole "Q2 shows who was really faster" argument really doesn't hold water. A driver is simply trying to progress to Q3, not break the lap record.

 

[BrightLampShade]

Surely the whole "Q2 shows who was really faster" argument really doesn't hold water. A driver is simply trying to progress to Q3, not break the lap record.

I've always thought this too, but there we go. At the end of the day its where you finish on Sunday that matters, and at the moment theres only a handful of drivers able to compete with the Red Bull in Vettels hands.

 

[GUEST]

Forza Ferrari why dont you go a few steps further and say whoever is quickest in p1 is a true reflection on who is faster.

 

[Prime Minister Cameron]

Race victories just to remind you:

Fernando: 26
Lewis: 15

Fernando has had a career of 10 years while this is Lewis's 5th year in the sport.

This shows that Hamilton has already made significant gains on Alonso and with averaging at 2.7 race wins a season(Wikipedia) he should catch up with Alonso.

But Hamilton jumped straight into a winning car(took him 6 races until first win)

While it took 3 years(correct me if wrong Fred or Forza) to win his first race as he was in a bad car.

 

[di Fredsta!]

In his 2nd full season PMC. He even got pole in his 2nd race in the Renault.
Hasnt LH only had 14 wins?

 

[Prime Minister Cameron]

In his 2nd full season PMC. He even got pole in his 2nd race in the Renault.
Hasnt LH only had 14 wins?

Thanks for correcting me. LH has 15 wins, including China this year.

 

[colinsmith11]

Miggins - with the tunnel incident i was just referring to what Brundle said. He used the word "wild" as he said he had watched other camera angles not shown on T.V and he described Lewis' attempt: "What could have been an 'airplane crash' as Hamilton passed Massa at the kink in the tunnel was only avoided because Massa saw him coming and then surfed the tyre marbles into the wall. That one was wild to say the least and Lewis was pushing both their lucks in the extreme." This is straight from Brundle's article on the BBC website.
As for the reckless, I was meaning that he was going for gaps which were always going to disappear - Massa and Maldonado were always going to take the corner!!! lewis seems to expect people to jump out his way when he makes wild lunges up the inside.

 

[Canary f1]

This topic is nonsense. Hamilton is already a WDC and is currently second in the standings, he is doing better than Webber(who has a faster car), Alonso and Button.

His comments after Monaco were stupid but they were said in the heat of the moment, born out of frustration. People are calling Monaco 11 the worst race of his career...I bet many racers would take a 6th place as their worst race! Plenty of other drivers have crashed twice in a race but when Lewis does it he must be banned for a race or receive a grid drop? lol

Lewis' attitude often wins him races. He won't change and he shouldn't.

The Massa pass was silly but the Maldonado crash was a racing incident, even Sam Michael agrees.

Sometimes Hamilton's styles works (China) sometimes it doesn't (Monaco).

Hamilton is a favourite to win in Canada as he always shines there, if he does win then he still has an outside chance of the WDC, which is more than can be said for Alonso, Button and Webber.

Unlike his hero Senna, Hamilton has yet to deliberately take out another driver....just imagine the out cry if he did!

 

[Eat Sleep Watch F1 Repeat]

Mclaren have given him a WDC, if Red Bull struggled this year he would have the fastest car. He is only being ruined on strategy and pit stops (Apart from China). If Newey went back to Mclaren and they developed a similar car to the Red Bull then he would be brilliant. Same can be said for Alonso.

 

[TheModestMatt]

Mclaren have given him a WDC, if Red Bull struggled this year he would have the fastest car. He is only being ruined on strategy and pit stops (Apart from China). If Newey went back to Mclaren and they developed a similar car to the Red Bull then he would be brilliant. Same can be said for Alonso.

Yeah whats up with McLaren and their dodgy pit stops with Lewis, I would love to know why they were not ready for him in Monaco and also why did they opted for Jenson to do a bank lap and not Lewis. These questions have yet to answered by the team.

 

[Big Ern]

Why is it that when Lewis has a bad strategy it's all McLarens fault, but when he has a unorthodox but good one he is a genius? And if the pit crew are really stuffing him up does it mean that they don't like him as a person?

 

[DHCanary]

I think the decision for Jenson to put in a banker lap would have been made between Jenson and his race engineer. Likewise Hamilton made his decision with his. Admittedly by the sound of the interviews, it seemed like Hamilton didn't have much choice in the Q3 strategy, but equally I'm sure if he was seriously worried he could have said something, and he did still fluff his lap, so he can't exonerate himself that easily.

 

[BrightLampShade]

Hamilton did the same with only on Q3 lap in China, no one complained then.
When something goes wrong people remember, when things are all good no one notices. For example.... the news

 

[TheModestMatt]

Hamilton did the same with only on Q3 lap in China, no one complained then.
When something goes wrong people remember, when things are all good no one notices. For example.... the news

Yes but that was at the start of Q3 in China so there was no risk. In Monaco they left it late which is always a risk especially in Monaco. I dont think theres any favourtism in the team at all, its just such weird call to make. Jenson and/or his engineer more wise perhaps. Still I hope they mention why they were not ready for him in the pits, coz thats the really confusing one.

 

[BrightLampShade]

Yes but that was at the start of Q3 in China so there was no risk. In Monaco they left it late which is always a risk especially in Monaco. I dont think theres any favourtism in the team at all, its just such weird call to make.

In China Hamilton went out with 3 mins to go. In Monaco he went out with 5 mins to go?

Yes Monaco is always a risk, but you win some and you loose some.

 

[Basil_Brushzenberger]

"Lewis was an experiment. He had a programme. It was all the right stuff. But the one thing you miss in all that is that you don't necessarily equip someone to make life decisions."

If this is indeed Whitmarsh's quote it is quite spooky in the light of information in the public domain about MK-Ultra.

MK-Ultra was a CIA programme that experimented on US citizens without their knowledge, causing untold harm. Clinton ended up apologising to the American public about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u22mphQsn5s

Since the programme officially ended many whistleblowers have come forward to lift the lid on the mind control experiments that went on, for example Cathy O'Brien, Svali, and Arizona Wilder.

The most well known facet of MK-Ultra is trauma based mind control. Victims describe how, at an early age, they are quite literally sold into slavery, sometimes by their own family, while being sexually abused by their own parents. The effect of this abuse makes the mind disassociate, and split. These splits can then be programmed via further trauma, drugs, sensory deprivation and electric shocks.

Totally mind controlled slaves have no real will of their own, and act only according to a programme that has been activated through the use of trauma, often sexual abuse. They are used as sex slaves like Cathy O'Brien, but are often famous entertainers or sports stars. Some well know people who are claimed to be mind controlled slaves are Marilyn Monroe, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Nicole Scherzinger, Corey Haim, Justin Timberlake, Madonna, Linsey Lohan and Tiger Woods. Tiger Woods, in fact, tuned up on Bob Hope's TV show when he was just two, hitting golf balls accompanied by his father.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wHkA_983_s

If you have read Cathy O'Brien's book Tranceformation of America you will know that she claims that Bob Hope was one of her programmers or handlers, so he would be well aware of what programmed slaves like Tiger Woods would be able to do. They are bred to do specific tasks and drilled in them from an early age. Unfortunately they are not equipped to "make life decisions".

I think it is possible that Lewis Hamilton is a mind controlled slave, was programmed to never panic, be a all out driver and ruthless overtaker, and never admit culpability, along the same lines as how Ayrton Senna drove and behaved. If you were going to programme a young child to be like any driver then Senna would be a good model.

Speaking of models, here's 6 year old Lewis racing remote control cars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY8qp3hymVU&feature=related

Anyway, there's plenty of stuff about MK-Ultra victims on Youtube, esoteric kitten's videos being fantastic, but most of the victims documented are entertainment stars under kitten programming like Britney Spears, Linsey Lohan, Paris Hilton and Nicole Scherzinger. It's a fascinating subject.

http://www.youtube.com/user/EsotericKitten

With regard to McLaren ruining Hamilton, I think it may well be the other way around. All this stuff can be researched. There is tons of stuff about it, so don't take it from me.

 

[Vilsmeier-Haack Reaction]

Westy, maybe, but he wasnt aware of what was going on around him and at that level he should be, Hamilton and Schumacher operate on a different plane than most and expect not unreasonably for others to be awake, Maldonaldo was not, he should have been aware Hamilton was going to make a move on him anytime soon.

Sorry, I dont buy that one bit. It is Hamilton's overtake, the onus is on him to weigh up all the factors before making a move. One factor is that different drivers will behave differently in corners normally and under pressure. He cannot approach each overtake expecting each driver to behave the same. If the driverturns in early ( seriously how early could he have turned in, its a tight circuit and there is a very thin allowance for different turning points in order to meet the apex) its up to the overtaking driver to ensure that there is no collision and take responsibility if there is one.

 

[genjigonzales]

Fascinating write-up on MK-Ultra, Basil. Completely off-topic but fascinating nonetheless. The thing is, western governments brainwash and manipulate their citizens constantly and quite openly. Indeed, F1 is but a part of the manipulation. They don't need to utilise mind-altering drugs, sexual abuse and sensory deprivation because we all willingly buy into the consumerist ideal and keep voting the buggers back in, grateful for their protection from the privations of a world without M&S.

I think the decision for Jenson to put in a banker lap would have been made between Jenson and his race engineer. Likewise Hamilton made his decision with his. Admittedly by the sound of the interviews, it seemed like Hamilton didn't have much choice in the Q3 strategy, but equally I'm sure if he was seriously worried he could have said something, and he did still fluff his lap, so he can't exonerate himself that easily.

This is the crux of the issue for me. It's not the McLaren overlords who are ruining Hamilton's chances of achieving his potential, it's the Hamilton "side of the garage" - his race engineers, mechanics and Hamilton himself.They decide how to approach race weekends, including qualifying and the race, and Hamilton has a big part to play in that. If he doesn't speak up (he said in the interview pen after qualifying that he "didn't challenge them") against a decision then he's complicit in making the decision and he can't convincingly criticise it after the event. Sometimes he does give the impression that he's a lot more dependent on his engineers than other drivers are on theirs.

 

[DeVries]

This is really too funny

Tiger Woods and Lewis Hamilton are now CIA programmed goverment sponsored slaves

That's why they are able to play golf well and overtake at will

They were programmed from an early age, why Tiger was seen on a tv program putting at age two

Nicole Sherzinger is also one?

How about Obama, you forgot about him?

 

[cosicave]

"Lewis was an experiment. He had a programme. It was all the right stuff. But the one thing you miss in all that is that you don't necessarily equip someone to make life decisions."

If this is indeed Whitmarsh's quote it is quite spooky in the light of information in the public domain about MK-Ultra.

MK-Ultra was a CIA programme that experimented on US citizens without their knowledge, causing untold harm. Clinton ended up apologising to the American public about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u22mphQsn5s

Since the programme officially ended many whistleblowers have come forward to lift the lid on the mind control experiments that went on, for example Cathy O'Brien, Svali, and Arizona Wilder.

The most well known facet of MK-Ultra is trauma based mind control. Victims describe how, at an early age, they are quite literally sold into slavery, sometimes by their own family, while being sexually abused by their own parents. The effect of this abuse makes the mind disassociate, and split. These splits can then be programmed via further trauma, drugs, sensory deprivation and electric shocks.

Totally mind controlled slaves have no real will of their own, and act only according to a programme that has been activated through the use of trauma, often sexual abuse. They are used as sex slaves like Cathy O'Brien, but are often famous entertainers or sports stars. Some well know people who are claimed to be mind controlled slaves are Marilyn Monroe, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Nicole Scherzinger, Corey Haim, Justin Timberlake, Madonna, Linsey Lohan and Tiger Woods. Tiger Woods, in fact, tuned up on Bob Hope's TV show when he was just two, hitting golf balls accompanied by his father.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wHkA_983_s

If you have read Cathy O'Brien's book Tranceformation of America you will know that she claims that Bob Hope was one of her programmers or handlers, so he would be well aware of what programmed slaves like Tiger Woods would be able to do. They are bred to do specific tasks and drilled in them from an early age. Unfortunately they are not equipped to "make life decisions".

I think it is possible that Lewis Hamilton is a mind controlled slave, was programmed to never panic, be a all out driver and ruthless overtaker, and never admit culpability, along the same lines as how Ayrton Senna drove and behaved. If you were going to programme a young child to be like any driver then Senna would be a good model.

Speaking of models, here's 6 year old Lewis racing remote control cars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY8qp3hymVU&feature=related

Anyway, there's plenty of stuff about MK-Ultra victims on Youtube, esoteric kitten's videos being fantastic, but most of the victims documented are entertainment stars under kitten programming like Britney Spears, Linsey Lohan, Paris Hilton and Nicole Scherzinger. It's a fascinating subject.

http://www.youtube.com/user/EsotericKitten

With regard to McLaren ruining Hamilton, I think it may well be the other way around. All this stuff can be researched. There is tons of stuff about it, so don't take it from me.

What a very interesting contribution Basil. Thanks. There's quite a lot of stuff I am already aware of with this. But although I've not given much thought to Hamilton's particular case, I have been aware of him since before he came into F1 and firmly believe any 'programming' was initially self-inflicted and then aided and abetted by his father (in the positive sense).

And I must say it's good to see you here in the forum Mr Brushzenberger!