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Darren Peacock’s Ponytail said:
This has nothing to do with the decisions.
All enjoyment has been sucked out regardless of correct decision. How many times have you jumped in the air for a goal screaming your head off, ref is giving it and rightly or wrongly technology has been used and it’s been disallowed? or that wait to realise it is a goal.
**** all that. It’sa game between two sides of 11 people with 3 officiating on the pitch.
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I don't mind the wait (although think it shouldn't take more than 30 seconds -possibly a minute - to come to a sensible decision, just means your get to celebrate a second time) AS LONG as they come to the correct decision. I mean both the penalties last night are stonewallers - and neither are given.

I think managers need to be allowed appeals in the game to force the ref to the screen to review. The managers all watch it back anyway - you could tell by Howe's reaction he's seen it back and knows that Gordon should have a penalty. Let them watch it back and request a review instead of some pleb sat miles away watching it in slow motion.
 
Welshie said:
I think the conversation is a bit more nuanced than people are treating it.

Technology isn't the issue in my opinion, it's the useless idiots that run it. PGMOL are not up to standard, they don't do enough to communicate to the fans and the clubs about decisions and VAR is not transparent enough.

Instead of showing us an idiot playing around with a mouse looking for a pixel offside, have his microphone broadcast so he can explain what he is looking at and his decision.

The fear of micing up football referees is irrational and idiotic.
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What the Panda says.

<cheers>
 
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G4rdToonArmy said:
I don't mind the wait (although think it shouldn't take more than 30 seconds -possibly a minute - to come to a sensible decision, just means your get to celebrate a second time) AS LONG as they come to the correct decision. I mean both the penalties last night are stonewallers - and neither are given.

I think managers need to be allowed appeals in the game to force the ref to the screen to review. The managers all watch it back anyway - you could tell by Howe's reaction he's seen it back and knows that Gordon should have a penalty. Let them watch it back and request a review instead of some pleb sat miles away watching it in slow motion.
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correct
if it takes longer than 30 seconds then it is NOT an 'Obvious' mistake
we don't want hairline lines drawn to see a toe over the line
 
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Hung Drawn and Quartered said:
correct
if it takes longer than 30 seconds then it is NOT an 'Obvious' mistake
we don't want hairline lines drawn to see a toe over the line
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This I agree with. Check it. If 30 seconds it’s not clear the referee was incorrect then carry on. Literally a timer can be applied. On screen.

A quick tannoy announcement saying checking for offside. 30 seconds passes nothing found. Referee blows to carry on.
 
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G4rdToonArmy said:
I don't mind the wait (although think it shouldn't take more than 30 seconds -possibly a minute - to come to a sensible decision, just means your get to celebrate a second time) AS LONG as they come to the correct decision. I mean both the penalties last night are stonewallers - and neither are given.

I think managers need to be allowed appeals in the game to force the ref to the screen to review. The managers all watch it back anyway - you could tell by Howe's reaction he's seen it back and knows that Gordon should have a penalty. Let them watch it back and request a review instead of some pleb sat miles away watching it in slow motion.
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For me this is the key to VAR.

1. Take the immediate decision out of the referee’s hands as to whether incident is referred to VAR.

2. VAR can only be activated by the Manager of each team with each team having 2 appeals per half. If an appeal is successful then you don’t lose it.

3. An appeal can be used only in relation to goals, penalties, offsides and sending offs.

4. if a decision isn’t able to be made in 60 seconds by VAR then referee’s on field decision stands.

Try for 2 years and review.
 
Delusional Full Stop said:
For me this is the key to VAR.

1. Take the immediate decision out of the referee’s hands as to whether incident is referred to VAR.

2. VAR can only be activated by the Manager of each team with each team having 2 appeals per half. If an appeal is successful then you don’t lose it.

3. An appeal can be used only in relation to goals, penalties, offsides and sending offs.

4. if a decision isn’t able to be made in 60 seconds by VAR then referee’s on field decision stands.

Try for 2 years and review.
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This can’t work for me. I see why you’re doing it.

You could use your 2 interventions. Both being incorrect. Then some abysmal decisions go against you. Which you can’t challenge.

VAR isn’t broken I think it’s simple. If it takes 30 seconds or more to try and review it. It isn’t clear and obvious.

Therefore plays carry’s on.
 
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Judge GG said:
This can’t work for me. I see why you’re doing it.

You could use your 2 interventions. Both being incorrect. Then some abysmal decisions go against you. Which you can’t challenge.

VAR isn’t broken I think it’s simple. If it takes 30 seconds or more to try and review it. It isn’t clear and obvious.

Therefore plays carry’s on.
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The thing is we will never get a system which is perfect.

It’s a balance between trying to maximise the number of correct important decisions whilst minimising the intrusion into the flow and spirit of the game.

My version also takes away most of the impact of VAR officials and makes referees the sole arbiter.
 
Automate the offsides (which they've done on the continent) and get rid of everything else. Drastically improve the rules on retrospective punishment - I never understood why they let this slide (oh, the ref saw it and gave a yellow, so we can't now say it's a red - YES YOU ****ING CAN!!). Book divers and cheats after the match, upgrade yellows for missed dangerous play.

It's a question of what's worse - Jones not being able to conclusively give a pen, or Gillet then looking at it 5 times and missing that it was? We've just shifted the errors which is infinitely worse than just getting it wrong. I will say, it'll be interesting to see which way the VAR vote goes.....
 
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Just read it won't be scrapped. I'm getting past caring about football now, mind. These new CL formats and yet more elitism might be the end for me.
 
Roland Deschain said:
Just read it won't be scrapped. I'm getting past caring about football now, mind. These new CL formats and yet more elitism might be the end for me.
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There's no chance of anything getting better.. they've now formulated everything to ensure that's the case.
 
Welshie said:
I think the conversation is a bit more nuanced than people are treating it.

Technology isn't the issue in my opinion, it's the useless idiots that run it. PGMOL are not up to standard, they don't do enough to communicate to the fans and the clubs about decisions and VAR is not transparent enough.

Instead of showing us an idiot playing around with a mouse looking for a pixel offside, have his microphone broadcast so he can explain what he is looking at and his decision.

The fear of micing up football referees is irrational and idiotic.
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I think you mean Miking. Micing up a referee is something quite different but that one from Wednesday certainly deserved it.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gerbilizing
 
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VAR is meant to introduce objectivity to the decision making but it doesn't as the VAR staff seem to be working with the referee.

If VAR was objective then if the Ref had given the Amrabat foul on Gordon then VAR should have overturned that decision as they must have looked at the incident and decided it wasn't a foul. However I think that they are influenced by the referees decision and its easier to just say no foul. Don't know how you get round that.
 
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Ok have had an idea, basically flipping the use, so what do you lot think:

- bring in a new system where the onfield ref is the only one who can refer to VAR.
- when the ref has a doubt over either 1) legitimacy of a goal, 2) whether a yellow could be a red or 3) where there’s a potential penalty, he blows the whistle and makes the VAR signal
- 30 second timer begins and VAR look at replays to decide if the goal given should be disallowed, the yellow should be upgraded or whether the penalty should be given/not given.
- 30’seconds later the screen/ref go with VAR, so it’s basically about giving the ref the benefit of hindsight/replays but not slowing the game down at all.
- offside should be automated, but you use the linesman to flag; if the linesman keeps the flag down but VAR says it’s offside, he gets an alert (like goal line tech) and puts his flag up.

Needs a bit more working out but I think this makes a lot of sense. Thoughts? Disagree?
 
Roland Deschain said:
Ok have had an idea, basically flipping the use, so what do you lot think:

- bring in a new system where the onfield ref is the only one who can refer to VAR.
- when the ref has a doubt over either 1) legitimacy of a goal, 2) whether a yellow could be a red or 3) where there’s a potential penalty, he blows the whistle and makes the VAR signal
- 30 second timer begins and VAR look at replays to decide if the goal given should be disallowed, the yellow should be upgraded or whether the penalty should be given/not given.
- 30’seconds later the screen/ref go with VAR, so it’s basically about giving the ref the benefit of hindsight/replays but not slowing the game down at all.
- offside should be automated, but you use the linesman to flag; if the linesman keeps the flag down but VAR says it’s offside, he gets an alert (like goal line tech) and puts his flag up.

Needs a bit more working out but I think this makes a lot of sense. Thoughts? Disagree?
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I do see where you're coming from and if applied correctly could work. But it will still boil down to the refs using it properly / consistently.

It won't pick up on 'clear and obvious' errors that the ref has missed if he is convinced he is right and so doesn't refer it.
 
The VAR they use in the World Cup seems to be much better operated and leads to less missed/wrong decisions. Suspect it all comes down to the standard of the referees involved and the fact that the PL referees are such a small group that they don't want to be seen to be disagreeing with their mates.

I actually think the only solution is to scrap the whole thing as it isn't adding to the game as a spectacle. Its actually remarkable how many times the linesmen get offside right, except when it's the end of a foot or a couple of fingers and offside was never meant to pick up those. It was meant to be for players seeking to gain an unfair advantage by having a head start on the defender.
 
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