Shows how it is all about very fine margins. The line between success and failure is very thin in football. I am not saying that Moyes's teams performances were anything but poor but think about how United got knocked out if the cups. Last minute Swansea goal, last minute Sunderland goal all defensive mistakes or indiscipline. Same with losing points to Cardiff , Stoke and WBA. No doubt with a bit of luck, United - still a **** team- would still have had a better season.
Lost all respect for United
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Shows how it is all about very fine margins. The line between success and failure is very thin in football. I am not saying that Moyes's teams performances were anything but poor but think about how United got knocked out if the cups. Last minute Swansea goal, last minute Sunderland goal all defensive mistakes or indiscipline. Same with losing points to Cardiff , Stoke and WBA. No doubt with a bit of luck, United - still a **** team- would still have had a better season.
Problem with that argument is that it could have been made at any point in the last five years. We've arguablly been in transition for much of that period, trying to build a new CM pairing and replace various parts of our defence whilst bringing youngsters through with varying degrees of success. SAF could have walked away at any point since 2009, and the squad would arguably not have been in a massively better situation to what it is at now.
The corollary to your argument is also that SAF saw how far ahead we were at the end of last season and figured this would be the best time to bring in a new manager, with plenty of time to get up to speed before our rivals had a chance to turn their own performances around. Particularly given he already had deals lined up for Thiago and Garay, which would have started the rebuilding process well, before Moyes pulled the plug on them.
After all, all SAF has achieved by 'stitching up' Moyes has been to tarnish his own legacy, with Moyes now added to the list of flop signings alongside Kleberson, Veron and co. If SAF knew the job was a bust, why not just step back and tell the board to choose their own manager, then wash his hands of the whole mess?
All the theories ascribing ulterior motives including some personal aggrandisement motive to fergie are just poppycock. There is no doubt in my mind that he thought that Moyes could carry on what he left. He must have believed that Moyes with his experience at Everton had the ability and experience.
Fergie underestimated the task to follow him. He couldn't have predicted that instead of growing into the job Moyes actually shrunk.
Fergie himself didn't account for the effect of him leaving. I think that is true. The list of reasons Moyes failed is extensive
Culture shock, Fergie going really did throw everything up into the air, Moyes was never the charismatic type to instantly turn that around, Fergie knew that, Moyes is a dour pragmatist like Fergie. he would have done much better the following season, I do not doubt that.
Important players getting past it
Players not performing well
Change of staff
Summer transfer fiasco
injured players, Everyone acknowledges RvP did make the difference for the previous campaign for Fergie, Moyes was without that resource this season really.
Rooney going off form
A list of uncharacteristic player mistakes that cost points.
A host of players he was not really that familiar with, takes time to work out what you got and how to use it. He did lack the basics though as in he should maybe have drawn a lot of the games he lost, by playing it safe tactically. It's at least a solid foundation if you are not conceding, given the performance put in against Bayern this was certainly possible.
And possibly players intentionally not performing cos they did not want Moyes as boss. Hardly the first time that's happened. it may even have been the case with Woy at Liverpool, who knows. What we know is players often do not perform for managers they don't respect.
All of that added to his own mistakes make a very grim picture. I think he was harshly judged as it is all lumped on him.
If Fergie had a different team and he suddenly got handed this current United squad in the summer, I really doubt he'd have won the league.
Culture shock, Fergie going really did throw everything up into the air, Moyes was never the charismatic type to instantly turn that around, Fergie knew that, Moyes is a dour pragmatist like Fergie. he would have done much better the following season, I do not doubt that.
Important players getting past it
Players not performing well
Change of staff
Summer transfer fiasco
injured players, Everyone acknowledges RvP did make the difference for the previous campaign for Fergie, Moyes was without that resource this season really.
Rooney going off form
A list of uncharacteristic player mistakes that cost points.
A host of players he was not really that familiar with, takes time to work out what you got and how to use it. He did lack the basics though as in he should maybe have drawn a lot of the games he lost, by playing it safe tactically. It's at least a solid foundation if you are not conceding, given the performance put in against Bayern this was certainly possible.
And possibly players intentionally not performing cos they did not want Moyes as boss. Hardly the first time that's happened. it may even have been the case with Woy at Liverpool, who knows. What we know is players often do not perform for managers they don't respect.
All of that added to his own mistakes make a very grim picture. I think he was harshly judged as it is all lumped on him.
If Fergie had a different team and he suddenly got handed this current United squad in the summer, I really doubt he'd have won the league.
Forget the fact that SAF retired, the biggest mistake was surely allowing Gill to leave at the same time! How can you have a smooth transition when the 2 key figures at the top of the club both leave! The Moyes appointment could have been more straightforward if Gill had been around to keep a close eye on the transition and perhaps all the major mistakes that were made in the first couple of weeks could have been avoided! I'm not for one minute suggesting that Moyse was the perfect man for the job, but this season would have been a lot better if the proper transitional arrangements had been put in place, with Gill staying to oversee things!
What were we supposed to do, tie him up in the basement? (Probably matth's solution
)The CEO of a football club, or any business for that matter, isn't on a fixed term contract like the manager or players. Just like most people with a job, they are free to leave the club at any time if they give the appropriate notice. Having the two most important people from the backroom staff both leave the club at the same time isn't ideal, but it's not like Utd could do anything about it!
What were we supposed to do, tie him up in the basement? (Probably matth's solution
The CEO of a football club, or any business for that matter, isn't on a fixed term contract like the manager or players. Just like most people with a job, they are free to leave the club at any time if they give the appropriate notice. Having the two most important people from the backroom staff both leave the club at the same time isn't ideal, but it's not like Utd could do anything about it!
Gill knew long in advance that SAF was going to retire at the end of the season! If he had any real loyalty to the club he would have stayed on for a few months longer to oversee the transition. Anyhow whats done is done but it does look like one big fook up!
Gill decided to go long before Fergie told him of his intentions to retire.
Think the wholesale sacking of Fergies "back room staff " might have had something to do with Moyes failure !
Whatever Moyes did people would have been saying he was wrong. Had he kept on Fergies staff, everyone would have been saying, he failed because he tried to be to much like SAF, and didn't put his own identity on the squad. I don't think Moyes could have escaped criticism whatever he did.
Every top manager has there own staff they use, that's just the way it is. By accepting SAFs staff, Moyes would have just looked like a puppet being controlled by Fergie. Had we got in any other manager they'd of probably done the same, it really is no big deal in my eyes, and I can't understand why everyone keeps playing on it.
If Van Gaal is the new man, I'm sure he'll bring a few coaches that he knows and trusts from the Dutch national team. He'll probably have them and someone like Giggs as his staff
Every top manager has there own staff they use, that's just the way it is. By accepting SAFs staff, Moyes would have just looked like a puppet being controlled by Fergie. Had we got in any other manager they'd of probably done the same, it really is no big deal in my eyes, and I can't understand why everyone keeps playing on it.
If Van Gaal is the new man, I'm sure he'll bring a few coaches that he knows and trusts from the Dutch national team. He'll probably have them and someone like Giggs as his staff
Whatever Moyes did people would have been saying he was wrong. Had he kept on Fergies staff, everyone would have been saying, he failed because he tried to be to much like SAF, and didn't put his own identity on the squad. I don't think Moyes could have escaped criticism whatever he did.
Every top manager has there own staff they use, that's just the way it is. By accepting SAFs staff, Moyes would have just looked like a puppet being controlled by Fergie. Had we got in any other manager they'd of probably done the same, it really is no big deal in my eyes, and I can't understand why everyone keeps playing on it.
If Van Gaal is the new man, I'm sure he'll bring a few coaches that he knows and trusts from the Dutch national team. He'll probably have them and someone like Giggs as his staff
Would it be acceptable to Utd if Van Gaal stipulated that no remnants of Fergie's tenure remain before he accepts the job?
Whatever Moyes did people would have been saying he was wrong. Had he kept on Fergies staff, everyone would have been saying, he failed because he tried to be to much like SAF, and didn't put his own identity on the squad. I don't think Moyes could have escaped criticism whatever he did.
Every top manager has there own staff they use, that's just the way it is. By accepting SAFs staff, Moyes would have just looked like a puppet being controlled by Fergie. Had we got in any other manager they'd of probably done the same, it really is no big deal in my eyes, and I can't understand why everyone keeps playing on it.
If Van Gaal is the new man, I'm sure he'll bring a few coaches that he knows and trusts from the Dutch national team. He'll probably have them and someone like Giggs as his staff
He could not have made someone as inexperienced as Phil Neville a head coach for starters.
Absolutely he is the boss, so it's down to him what he wants to do. Who are we as fans to argue with a manager that's done it all in the game. Though having read up on him, I don't think he will do that, I'm sure I read that at Barca and Bayern he kept on a few long servants of the clubs that had been there for years. Giggs I'm sure will be the likeliest, aslong as being the manager for 4 games doesn't go to his head, and he's happy to go back to being a coach once Van Gaal arrives
Absolutely he is the boss, so it's down to him what he wants to do. Who are we as fans to argue with a manager that's done it all in the game. Though having read up on him, I don't think he will do that, I'm sure I read that at Barca and Bayern he kept on a few long servants of the clubs that had been there for years. Giggs I'm sure will be the likeliest, aslong as being the manager for 4 games doesn't go to his head, and he's happy to go back to being a coach once Van Gaal arrives
Tbh I wasn't asking if it would be acceptable to the supporters I was referring to the club, Giggs is being primed for taking over at Utd in the future and it might part of the next Utd manager's contract that he gets kept on?
I don't think he is being primed by anyone. Giggs will have to earn his stripes, probably elsewhere as a manager before he gets such a high profile job. I don't even think he's got all his coaching badges. Of that era I think Gary Neville would be the best choice for future manager, as he's more of a leader than Giggs, and you can tell by the way he speaks as a pundit that he's intelligent and reads the game well
This ... in a nutshell ... the egos at Old Trafford had to have respect for Fergie's team for what they had achieved over the years ... in contrast to what they had for Moyes' team who had nothing more than a period of 'sustained stability' at Everton to bring to the table ....
Fergie left Moyes with an aged inept squad. Whoever is mad enough to come in will have the same problem a year older. Next year I wouldn't be surprised if you finished lower than this season.
You are competing with at least 8 other well funded clubs for top players.
You are competing with at least 8 other well funded clubs for top players.
inept
/ɪˈnɛpt/
adjective
adjective: inept
1. having or showing no skill; clumsy.
"the referee's inept handling of the match"
synonyms: incompetent, unskilful, unskilled, inexpert, amateurish, crude, rough
Ergo, this does NOT describe a squad that had just won the league.
/ɪˈnɛpt/
adjective
adjective: inept
1. having or showing no skill; clumsy.
"the referee's inept handling of the match"
synonyms: incompetent, unskilful, unskilled, inexpert, amateurish, crude, rough
Ergo, this does NOT describe a squad that had just won the league.
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