And this is where the debate should stop
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I wonder how long it will be before some idiot changes his/her date of birth by deed poll, or whatever . . . . or whinges 'cos he/she can't 
Yes, it sounds stupid, but so did what is now being discussed on here many years ago (and still does to most), so perhaps it's just a matter time
Yes, it sounds stupid, but so did what is now being discussed on here many years ago (and still does to most), so perhaps it's just a matter time
Slightly different take on it...
Here in Aus those of aboriginal heritage qualify for additional benefits. I wonder if i'd qualify if i identified as aboriginal?
Here in Aus those of aboriginal heritage qualify for additional benefits. I wonder if i'd qualify if i identified as aboriginal?
It's ironic that those demanding acceptance and tolerance are the least tolerant of contrary viewpoints.
(As per the women in the BBC thread.)
This minority group is miniscule, in reality, yet they want to radically change the entire sport they claim to love purely for their own benefit.
I used to do the doors on a Nottingham club, called The House, with lads including Trevor who was a hefty 6'2" bearded transvestite. He wore a dress on the job but didn't expect any special treatment. The passing town lads would take the piss but he accepted that as quite normal, not a hate crime or persecution. If someone went too far, and got too close, he'd sent them bowling backwards down Huntingdon Street
No one ever reported him to the police ...
... 'Yes officer, I was knocked out by a man in a spangly silver mini dress.'
In fairness. I have no qualms with that given the entire country was taken off them against their will and their people and culture near enough eradicated.
I know a mixed race lad, half Antiguan and half white Australian. Pretty sure he ticked a box at school and got extra support and no one really questioned it.
I'm sorry my stance of "sexism is bad" upsets you so much
.I don't really understand your point about me "arguing to the death" - should I just have stopped arguing my point because you wanted to shout the loudest?
I'm sorry my stance of "sexism is bad" upsets you so much
I don't really understand your point about me "arguing to the death" - should I just have stopped arguing my point because you wanted to shout the loudest?
Sexism is bad, I totally agree as do most people I'd imagine.
What you're doing is seeing sexism where there is none ...
... I'm not in the least upset, nor am I shouting.
Once again you're seeing things that don't exist.
You seem to believe 'your stance' is somehow brave, it's actually just normal.
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"Not upset" but tagging me in a random unrelated thread for no apparent reason. Interesting...
This is all getting a bit boring now. You talked yourself in circles in the other thread and failed to come up with any sort of sensible counter-point to my two most recent posts, and ended up resorting to quoting random dolts from Twitter. Why not just accept you lost the argument and move on?
There's other bits to this aswell. Apparently, she still has male genitals and doesn't always cover up in the changing rooms in front of other competitors. Added to that, she's still supposed to be attracted to women, so you can see why some female swimmers will get uncomfortable before you even get to the competition side.
As a male he was ranked 462 in the NCAA, but now is ranked number 1 as a woman, is capable of breaking records in her chosen events and could potentially be at the Olympics in 2 years. Physiologically her advantage is going to be massive compared to other swimmers, her personal best for the 500 yard freestyle is 16 seconds faster the the University's own record and 6 seconds faster that the world record for the event, which was set by Katie Ledecky who is regarded as one of the greatest women swimmers ever.
In the UK, the best estimates for how many transgender people there are here is that's there's somewhere between 200,000 and 500,000, which means somewhere between 0.3 and 0.75% of the UKs approximate 67 million population. I fully support people who are genuinely transgender getting the support they need to live their lives, however there are some areas where people WILL take advantage of it, and this seems to be one of them and you can't have a reasonable debate to come to some sensible conclusion because of the threat of being labelled "transphobic" and being attacked by the more militant sections. As someone said earlier, what's to stop more unscrupulous countries or individuals declaring they're transgender and packing a female football, rugby, boxing, swimming, athletics team with transfemales just to win medals? If the Russians can put a 15 year old female iceskater on a cocktail of heart drugs normally given to mature people with angina, or the Spanish cans send a "mentally impaired" basketball team to the Paralympics without any of the team having intellectual disabilities, this gives another option for cheating.
As a male he was ranked 462 in the NCAA, but now is ranked number 1 as a woman, is capable of breaking records in her chosen events and could potentially be at the Olympics in 2 years. Physiologically her advantage is going to be massive compared to other swimmers, her personal best for the 500 yard freestyle is 16 seconds faster the the University's own record and 6 seconds faster that the world record for the event, which was set by Katie Ledecky who is regarded as one of the greatest women swimmers ever.
In the UK, the best estimates for how many transgender people there are here is that's there's somewhere between 200,000 and 500,000, which means somewhere between 0.3 and 0.75% of the UKs approximate 67 million population. I fully support people who are genuinely transgender getting the support they need to live their lives, however there are some areas where people WILL take advantage of it, and this seems to be one of them and you can't have a reasonable debate to come to some sensible conclusion because of the threat of being labelled "transphobic" and being attacked by the more militant sections. As someone said earlier, what's to stop more unscrupulous countries or individuals declaring they're transgender and packing a female football, rugby, boxing, swimming, athletics team with transfemales just to win medals? If the Russians can put a 15 year old female iceskater on a cocktail of heart drugs normally given to mature people with angina, or the Spanish cans send a "mentally impaired" basketball team to the Paralympics without any of the team having intellectual disabilities, this gives another option for cheating.
Not wanting to derail this thread (it's a good subject), I'll reply to the OP now I'm here...
In my opinion, there is no perfect solution to the problem. I'm no expert in physiology but it seems pretty clear that trans females have a distinct advantage over cis females in any sport based on speed, strength, etc. I think studies have shown that simply reducing testosterone levels to those of a cis female does not negate all the benefits that going through male puberty grants.
On that basis, I don't really think there is any fair option other than for them to be banned from female competitive sports, unless it can be proven that they have lost ALL benefit of growing up male, through hormone therapy. If that takes five years or ten, then that's just hard luck, imo. The way things are going with women's records being broken by people who grew up male definitely needs to be reviewed, imo.
I have seen some people say there should be new categories (trans F to M and trans M to F) but, realisticaly, there will never be enough competitiors in those categories to make it viable / entertaining. Which means trans people just need to accept that a consequence of transitioning is that they probably won't be able to compete as professional athletes.
It's a little harsh on trans athletes, but 99% of the population aren't able to become elite athletes... Just get another job like the rest of us, I guess?
So this is quite a hot topic in our house…my daughter is a swimmer and horribly woke!! She understands (most do) that being transgender is difficult for those affected and (as most do) respects the rights of people to transition.
When it comes to swimming though the simple reality is that male swimmers (at an elite level) are quicker than females. By simple example - Commonwealth trials take place next month - to qualify to enter the competition the ASA sets minimum times. In every event the male qualification time is quicker than the female.
As the races get longer so strength and endurance become more important the gap widens
The 1500m freestyle is the longest event and a female can qualify with a time of 18.45.00 whereas the male time is 17.15.00 - the 1.30 difference is about 3 full lengths…
The biological differences make a huge difference…
Seems to me that the issue is being fair to the transgender swimmers is being unfair to those born as female…
When it comes to swimming though the simple reality is that male swimmers (at an elite level) are quicker than females. By simple example - Commonwealth trials take place next month - to qualify to enter the competition the ASA sets minimum times. In every event the male qualification time is quicker than the female.
As the races get longer so strength and endurance become more important the gap widens
The 1500m freestyle is the longest event and a female can qualify with a time of 18.45.00 whereas the male time is 17.15.00 - the 1.30 difference is about 3 full lengths…
The biological differences make a huge difference…
Seems to me that the issue is being fair to the transgender swimmers is being unfair to those born as female…
Of course there was a reason, couldn't be clearer because it's obviously related ...
... your blinkers are industrial strength tbh.
It's boring for you because your argument was based on nonsense and totally twisting what the OP had said.
As you've proved, beyond doubt, you see whatever you choose despite the facts ...
... much like how you've convinced yourself that you've won the argument
Transgender people are accepted in many areas where there's no obvious advantage or disadvantage ...
... just stick to those instead of doing things you don't need to do.
No one needs to swim.
Your daughter may well give up if she knows she'll be swimming against 'men' who'll win ...
... that's clearly unfair in anyone's eyes.
Not harsh at all if they were born a male then compete against males that's the end of it, that's is what they were born whether that's want they want to be or not, you can't put a race horse in a greyhound race because it wants to be a dog
It makes me wonder what would've been the situation during WW2 when males were conscripted into the services.
Would someone who's simply decided they fancy being a woman be excused active duty ...
... or would they be locked up as other men were.
Of course there was a reason, couldn't be clearer because it's obviously related ...
... your blinkers are industrial strength tbh.
It's boring for you because your argument was based on nonsense and totally twisting what the OP had said.
As you've proved, beyond doubt, you see whatever you choose despite the facts ...
... much like how you've convinced yourself that you've won the argument
What, "sexism in football" and "the effects of hormone therapy on trans people, and the intergrity of competitive swimming"? I guess if you boil both issues right down to "women's sports" you could say the two are related, but **** me that's an incredibly basic viewpoint.
I've already patiently explained how I didn't twist anything, and you had no retort.
For future reference, when one person is unable to provide any logical counter-point, it's generally accepted that they lost the argument
.
What, "sexism in football" and "the effects of hormone therapy on trans people, and the intergrity of competitive swimming"? I guess if you boil both issues right down to "women's sports" you could say the two are related, but **** me that's an incredibly basic viewpoint.
I've already patiently explained how I didn't twist anything, and you had no retort.
For future reference, when one person is unable to provide any logical counter-point, it's generally accepted that they lost the argument
There you go, I knew you'd get there eventually.
You did twist what the OP said, he didn't say any of this, you've just made it all up ....
"Women shouldn't be allowed to commentate on men's football"
"OP is arguing women should be allowed nowhere near football programs, purely because of their gender."
"Literally stating he'd rather see a man commentate than a woman, regardless of their individual knowledge, ability, etc."
" ... what the OP is saying. "Women shouldn't be allowed to commentate on men's football" "
The OP said none of this ...
... what circulates around your head isn't necessarily real.
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A bit unfair that Lia Thomas American transgender swimmer won the women's freestyle 500m by a length.
Only because the Catholic fella, in the next lane, pulled out at the last minute.