Transfer Rumours Let's ignore the big ****ing elephant and blame the latest manager, again. Are we nearly there yet?

[Diego]

Amorim's position is becoming quite precarious now - the squad is decimated by injury, the current form shows no sign of improvement, and there is worse to come because we won't have the cash come summer to spend on players to improve the squad - add to that the fact that we are likely to get fkd in the Europa cuppy thing. If the tea lady at OT is at risk then so is Amorim.

The fact the tea lady is at risk shows the extent we have falen, **** knows why because we are still a massive draw to supporters and sponsors.
Maybe it;s Jims way of clearing the de4cks for a massive splurge in the summer.

We can only hope

 

[Chief]

Amorim's position is becoming quite precarious now - the squad is decimated by injury, the current form shows no sign of improvement, and there is worse to come because we won't have the cash come summer to spend on players to improve the squad - add to that the fact that we are likely to get fkd in the Europa cuppy thing. If the tea lady at OT is at risk then so is Amorim.

But what happens then? Same players, same old ****.

This isn't Amorims fault. He has to do the rebuild.

In Alex Ferguson's first four seasons, we finished bottom half of the table THREE times.

He got them 2nd in his second season, then 13th and 11th followed while he changed the squad.

He'd have been sacked for that if the current social media type 'fan' was around in those days, spewing out outrage from their keyboards miles away, having never been anywhere near to Manchester, let alone to an actual game to support the team.

People need to back off, there isn't a manager in the world could get this squad anywhere near top six.

It needs ripping up and rebuilding.

 

[glazerfodder]

But what happens then? Same players, same old ****.

This isn't Amorims fault. He has to do the rebuild.

In Alex Ferguson's first four seasons, we finished bottom half of the table THREE times.

He got them 2nd in his second season, then 13th and 11th followed while he changed the squad.

He'd have been sacked for that if the current social media type 'fan' was around in those days, spewing out outrage from their keyboards miles away, having never been anywhere near to Manchester, let alone to an actual game to support the team.

People need to back off, there isn't a manager in the world could get this squad anywhere near top six.

It needs ripping up and rebuilding.

The difference is that back in the day, Edwards had unlimited funds to inject into the club, also he brought in the shareholders block to give the club unchallenged funds in the transfer market. Today we're counting bog rolls and tea bags before players, things are so bad with Ineos that I wish we'd sold to the oily boys.

 

[Diego]

The difference is that back in the day, Edwards had unlimited funds to inject into the club, also he brought in the shareholders block to give the club unchallenged funds in the transfer market. Today we're counting bog rolls and tea bags before players, things are so bad with Ineos that I wish we'd sold to the oily boys.

You do know that we didn't sell to Ineos? They have a minor share with the Glazers still holding majority and still robbing the club blind in dividends.

 

[Chief]

The difference is that back in the day, Edwards had unlimited funds to inject into the club, also he brought in the shareholders block to give the club unchallenged funds in the transfer market. Today we're counting bog rolls and tea bags before players, things are so bad with Ineos that I wish we'd sold to the oily boys.

In the same way the squad issue isn't Amorims fault, the financial issue isn't INEOS's.

This is all on the Glazers, every single last minor problem comes down to them and the half a billion quid debt.

Like Amorim, INEOS are in the position of having to sort it out.

We can't buy £100 million players, but so what, do we really want to? This is another two season rebuild, minimum, we've got to suck it up.

 

[cytrax]

Let’s not kid ourselves, we are now far worse under Amorim. Never thought that could happen after ETH. And Amorim’s insistence that he will never change the formation is squarely to blame to this current cycle. He even played Dorgu out of position for reasons only known to him. He is far too rigid for the good of the team and EPL is a different beast which he’s struggling badly to adapt to.

And that old analogy that it took Sir Alex four years is not even relevant. We live in different times whereby four years then is today’s 18 months to maybe 2 years at best.

The simple fact of the matter is that Amorim wasn’t brought in to take four years. He wasn’t brought in to claim nothing is his fault. He wasn’t brought in to blame the players. He wasn’t brought in to blame the Glazers. He wasn’t brought in to blame injuries. So enough with all the millions of excuses we have conjured up to make ourselves feel better. Had we won 70% of games under him, we would be praising him and never refer to anyone else. Conversely, he knows he is squarely to blame to the results under him.

We are in purgatory, gentlemen, and it starts and ends with the manager.

 

[Chief]

We are in purgatory, gentlemen, and it starts and ends with the manager.

Absolute ratshit.

No, it doesn't.

 

[cytrax]

Absolute ratshit.

No, it doesn't.

Of course I expected that kind of reaction. Even Amorim would disagree with the notion that he bares no responsibility. But we like to make things complicated around here, don’t we. We hire a new manager, and excited. Then they fail to meet the expectations and we quickly revert to Glazers. It’s been the same tripe for how long?

Perhaps we’ve just never really hired managers that fit what the club needed at different times? While Amorim would appear to fit the bill on paper, his rigidness on formation is a clear problem that should have been identified before he was hired. And apart from Amad, can we point to any other player that has become better since his arrival? Maybe Maguire.. which itself says it all.

 

[Chief]

Of course I expected that kind of reaction. Even Amorim would disagree with the notion that he bares no responsibility. But we like to make things complicated around here, don’t we. We hire a new manager, and excited. Then they fail to meet the expectations and we quickly revert to Glazers. It’s been the same tripe for how long?

Perhaps we’ve just never really hired managers that fit what the club needed at different times? While Amorim would appear to fit the bill on paper, his rigidness on formation is a clear problem that should have been identified before he was hired. And apart from Amad, can we point to any other player that has become better since his arrival? Maybe Maguire.. which itself says it all.

I didn't say he takes no responsibility.

You said he takes all responsibility. Which is utter bollocks.

If you can't see or don't know the bigger picture you're no longer worth conversing with.

You're no better or more informed that the next social media spoofer.

 

[glazerfodder]

INEOS is a ****show, financial problems all over the place - issues with the Mercedes FI deal, NZ rugby sponsorship, the Americas cup deal getting cancelled - all of them multi million deals and US analysts are reporting that INEOS has accumulated debts of five times it's annual earnings, in short, Ratcliffe has over extended himself and the club is having to pay the price. Instead of injecting more cash with a view to accumulating sufficient shares to trigger a takeover from the Glazers, INEOS has to resort to sacking staff just to pay the bills - nothing to do with FFP either. So much for the dream. As I've said before, I get a niff of the oily boys waiting in the wings.

 

[Chief]

One thing that I don't agree with is the increase in ticket prices.
All clubs do it, and United is still cheap compared to a lot of premier league clubs, but to take away junior and senior concessions is just not right.

In very small defense of the Glazer crowd, they never did that.

However, when push comes to shove, the reason the club remains half a billion in debt is still the Glazers, not INEOS.

I've got no issue with clearing out a load of hangers on who do nothing though.

(that includes half the playing staff tbh)

 

[cytrax]

The debt is actually structured and it isn’t the reason why the club is struggling operationally.

I don’t believe many fans understand how capital markets work. Ineos were never going to simply throw money around. You can’t spend money that you don’t have and football is not exactly a business of wonderful margins. The only owners that can do that are the oil barons that play by different rules. That is likely what Ineos is counting on for a glorious exit.

 

[glazerfodder]

I get a feeling that the oilmen are waiting patiently for all the stadium planning to be complete, deals in principle with major redevelopment stakeholders in place, govt funding in place before they make a move. That way their plans would already have the green light, no chance of hold-ups, allowing them to get on with the job.

 

[cytrax]

I get a feeling that the oilmen are waiting patiently for all the stadium planning to be complete, deals in principle with major redevelopment stakeholders in place, govt funding in place before they make a move. That way their plans would already have the green light, no chance of hold-ups, allowing them to get on with the job.

At the rate of our loss of revenue, we will be begging for someone to buy the club.

• £14.5m spent on sacking of Erik ten Hag and his coaching staff, including £4.1m on hiring then firing of former director Dan Ashworth
  

Anyone that thinks the club sacked ETH and paid off Amorim’s old club only to be told that it would take four years to rebuild is delusional on what the expectations are at the club. And with £404m still owed to other clubs in transfer fees, we are actually fked in more ways than one. All those years when we thought it was okay to pay the so-called United tax and give players salaries that didn’t reflect the results has really destroyed the immediate future of the club. This is an MBA text book of how not to manage any institution.

 

[Bodinki]

I kinda agree with Chief on the "Whos to blame" side of things and who is responsible, but I have a different view of the manager, for what its worth.
No matter who is put in there, they are going to have a terrible time of it with this squad in its current state and they are going to face the same issue of having no money come transfer time that Amorim faces.
Which begs the question? WTF bother sacking Ten Hag?
Although the manager is only a fraction of the issues you are facing, you need to get rid of Amorim and I will tell you why......

The only reason you would sack a manager is to look for improvement, a shake up and a new manager bounce. Amorim has not provided this at all.
Whilst I think Amorim (and Ten Hag for that matter) is a decent manager, and he has shown this.....he is persisting with a style of play that this current crop of players cannot and it looks like, will not ever, be able to get to grips with. 3 at the back clearly isnt working, and okay you can say the current state of the squad isnt the fault of the manager, and it isnt, but a managers job is to try win football matches with the players he has at his disposal by utilising them in the best and most effective way possible.
Amorim is not doing this, in fact I would argue Ten Hag was doing a better job at that than Amorim is doing right now.
The only thing Amorim has got going for him over ETH is that he is new and hasnt lost the dressing room yet, but give it time, it will happen.
Its okay bringing in a manager who is completely different from the previous, IF he has the ability to overhaul the squad in the summer and make it his own....if United dont have the money to do that, then sacking Ten Hag and bringing in Amorim was a monumental waste of time and money.

 

[Chief]

Amorim made it perfectly clear he was interested in the job but wanted to wait until this season was over, and come in the summer with some players he would like the club to recruit and would be able to work with, and create a new style of play.

The club (INEOS section) insisted it be now.

What Amorim is doing, is seeing if any of the existing players, all of whom were bought by previous managers, can be utilised in his future plans. So, this season, which he had already said would be better served by him staying at Sporting for, is being used as a trial. INEOS must know, and will have agreed to, this.

The idea of top four wasn't really feasible when he arrived, so what's the point in just reverting back to the same old system and formation previous managers had failed with in order to chase that? There isn't one, there's no glory in chasing sixth place, or kudos in getting it, so our routes into European football next season are the cups, both of which we are still in. It's on Amorim now to win one of them.

If Amorim leaves, I suspect it will be because HE has had enough, and will quit, rather than him being sacked for failing to polish one big ****ing huge turd that is our current squad of players.
If he does leave under these circumstances, he will go on to be a success somewhere else and it will be United's loss and we'll just drop back down to square minus whatever, as there is no manager on this planet can sort out the ****e that has been left by previous managers and the Glazers.

Just to everyone knows where 'the blame' should lie, I give you this; These are actual facts, not things made up by people of social media.

• Amorim did not plunge the club into half a million pounds of debt, none of which has been paid off.
• That it is 'structured' is a ludicrous statement. It's not. The interest is being paid and that is all, to the tune of one billion pounds so far. The debt itself? Still there.
• We now seemingly owe other clubs an almost equal amount, for players Amorim did not sign.
• Amorim did not sign a goal keeper whose particular talent seems to be to parry any shot to the nearest lurking opponent to score from.
• His alternative to this is to stand and watch the shot go past him, unmoved.
• Amorim did not sign two centre midfield players on long contracts who had reached the point where their legs no longer work for 90 mins.
• Amorim didn't allow the only decent left back we had to go to the Euro's while injured, and now we haven't seen him since, but yet we still pay him £300k a week.
• Amorim didn't sign the equally 'injury' prone Mason Mount.
• Amorim did not sign the clown of a player that is Diego Dalot, who can neither defend nor attack but is seemingly nailed on to play as he's a functioning full back, of sorts.
• Amorim didn't make Rashford down tools, he'd already done that.
• Amorim didn't sign Zirkzee as a striker, when he's clearly anything but.

Reverting back to 4 4 2 or whatever doesn't really get rid of these ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^issues. If we go to a back four, we still have no proper left back and we still have problems in midfield, it doesn't solve anything. We still have no goal threat, regardless. Especially now Amad is injured (it doesn't look so great an idea to loan out Antony at the moment).

We'd currently still have to play Fernandes as a CM, which he isn't, because Mainoo and Ugarte are currently injured. As is Collyer.

The only argument I can see for going back to a back four right now is that Mazaroui is an actual traditional right back, and he'd fit in the there. Do we really change the whole shape of the team to accommodate that one player? Or should our two right backs, him and Dalot, not be adaptable to the formation instead?

We play a back three/five and I can see why as centre half is where we have an actual surplus of half decent players in Yoro, de Ligt, Maguire and Martinez, when fit.

You take out a centre half, you need another CM in front of the pair, we do not currently have that player. Casemiro (who Amorim didn't sign, remember) is given dogs abuse when he fills in there. By our own ****ing supporters!

I'm fairly sure that INEOS did not sack Ten Hag and employ Amorim so they could turn round three months later and say 'this is all your fault'.

People need to turn off social media and let them get on with it, and see where we end up. And then have the summer window, where I assume there have been players identified to play to Amorim's formation. Which will work, he just needs a few significant signings.

 

[Chief]

I could sum up the above by just saying there is a load of residual **** to sort out and INEOS and Amorim have to get on with that over the next couple of seasons, and that sacking the manager will achieve absolutely **** all because all that **** will still be there.

 

[glazerfodder]

I kinda agree with Chief on the "Whos to blame" side of things and who is responsible, but I have a different view of the manager, for what its worth.
No matter who is put in there, they are going to have a terrible time of it with this squad in its current state and they are going to face the same issue of having no money come transfer time that Amorim faces.
Which begs the question? WTF bother sacking Ten Hag?
Although the manager is only a fraction of the issues you are facing, you need to get rid of Amorim and I will tell you why......

The only reason you would sack a manager is to look for improvement, a shake up and a new manager bounce. Amorim has not provided this at all.
Whilst I think Amorim (and Ten Hag for that matter) is a decent manager, and he has shown this.....he is persisting with a style of play that this current crop of players cannot and it looks like, will not ever, be able to get to grips with. 3 at the back clearly isnt working, and okay you can say the current state of the squad isnt the fault of the manager, and it isnt, but a managers job is to try win football matches with the players he has at his disposal by utilising them in the best and most effective way possible.
Amorim is not doing this, in fact I would argue Ten Hag was doing a better job at that than Amorim is doing right now.
The only thing Amorim has got going for him over ETH is that he is new and hasnt lost the dressing room yet, but give it time, it will happen.
Its okay bringing in a manager who is completely different from the previous, IF he has the ability to overhaul the squad in the summer and make it his own....if United dont have the money to do that, then sacking Ten Hag and bringing in Amorim was a monumental waste of time and money.

Totally agree

 

[glazerfodder]

I could sum up the above by just saying there is a load of residual **** to sort out and INEOS and Amorim have to get on with that over the next couple of seasons, and that sacking the manager will achieve absolutely **** all because all that **** will still be there.

So why didn't we just cruise along this season with ETH knowing that we had Amorim in the bag for pre-season and the summer window. Any fkn idiot could see that bringing in a new manager mid-season, a manager who INEOS would have known wanted to play a specific way, would end badly. And it will, and to make matters worse we don't have the money to buy the players Amorim might want to match his style of play.

 

[Chief]

I don't know, you'd have to ask Mr Radcliffe that one! They shouldn't have extended ten Hag's contract and allowed him to spend all that money on five new players either.

What's the point in going on about it though, what does it solve? **** all.