Match Day Thread Leeds Utd v Middlesbrough

[Leedsoflondon]

The one thing meslier does well (once he’s decided to do it,) is to come out in 1 v 1’s and make himself look big (not too hard when your his size). He did well yesterday.

The save at the near post from McGree was for the cameras but he did well to come out and smother the Doak opportunity.

He dished out some shanks and some hospital passes with the ball at his feet but his ‘goalkeeping’ was good yesterday.

What does this poor bastard need to do to catch a break?

 

[NostradEmus]

What does this poor bastard need to do to catch a break?

Don't worry about @milkyboy, he's got thick skin, he'll be fine.

 

[milkyboy]

What does this poor bastard need to do to catch a break?

catch a break? He'd probably drop it.

Seriously i gave him credit for his saves but thought his distrubution was poor (a hospital pass to the injured Rodon being a prime example)... did you see his performance differently?

 

[milkyboy]

Don't worry about @milkyboy, he's got thick skin, he'll be fine.

 

[Eireleeds1]

Sounds like we’re hoping to get a cross between Pat Jennings and Gordon banks in goals. Last one we tried signing was Darlow

 

[ristac]

https://fbref.com/en/comps/10/keepers/Championship-Stats

Meslier is 12th in saves percentage, not sure what half the other stats like Sota% mean

 

[Aski]

https://fbref.com/en/comps/10/keepers/Championship-Stats

Meslier is 12th in saves percentage, not sure what half the other stats like Sota% mean

SOTA is Shots on target against (hence its an actual number not a percntage)

So for Mes this season there have ben 40 SOTA of which he has saved 28

 

[ristac]

SOTA is Shots on target against (hence its an actual number not a percntage)

So for Mes this season there have ben 40 SOTA of which he has saved 28

Thank you

I was looking for another table that might show the expected goals per shot saves

out of every keeper playing 17 or more games, he’s faced far less shots on target than anyone, shows a great defensive effort from the squad

 

[Aski]

Thank you

I was looking for another table that might show the expected goals per shot saves

On Fbref you need to look under the advanced goalkeeping stats for that

its under PSxG (Post Shot expected goals) and PSxg/SOT (PSxG/ Shots on Target)

Basically with shots on target Mes, is expected to have conceded 11.5 goals, compared to the 12 that have been actually recorded as Shots on Target.

Presumably The Firpo and Wober own goals are not classed as shots on target and thus not considered to be detrimental against a keeper

I've always interpreted it as any keeper that concedes +/- 1 expected goal compared to shots on target is performing as expected. Obviously it would be more preferable to have a keeper with a higher +

You must log in or register to see images

 

[Leedsoflondon]

catch a break? He'd probably drop it.

Seriously i gave him credit for his saves but thought his distrubution was poor (a hospital pass to the injured Rodon being a prime example)... did you see his performance differently?

I’m not his biggest fan but thought he played well and arguably won us the game with the save from Doak. I didn’t see his distribution to be any better or worse than usual and I’m presuming he’s following his manager’s instructions. Do I think he is a great keeper - no. Do I think he deserves criticism for this game - no. I’m just being fair to a player I’ve slated a lot in the past (and may do so again in the future).

 

[oldschool]

Should have gone for Johansson from Rotherham when we had the chance... he's top of aski's chart and only 2 years older than Mes with more shots peppered at him and he cost relative peanuts...think it was £1.5 million whilst we spent around £400,000 on darlow ...then let mes have some proper competition, which in all honesty I think is possibly holding him in a state of 'who's going to displace me' which has been the case for 3 or 4 seasons.... chance missed

 

[milkyboy]

I’m not his biggest fan but thought he played well and arguably won us the game with the save from Doak. I didn’t see his distribution to be any better or worse than usual and I’m presuming he’s following his manager’s instructions. Do I think he is a great keeper - no. Do I think he deserves criticism for this game - no. I’m just being fair to a player I’ve slated a lot in the past (and may do so again in the future).

fair post, bud. Perhaps I damned him with faint praise. The other side of the coin is do we have to celebrate a game where he’s not at fault.

All keepers make mistakes playing out from the back, it’s an accepted hazard of the job. He has good days and bad days like most. Thought Tuesday was a bad day. But redeemed by his saves.

i don’t rate him but I do try to be objective. Maybe I need to try harder

 

[milkyboy]

On Fbref you need to look under the advanced goalkeeping stats for that

its under PSxG (Post Shot expected goals) and PSxg/SOT (PSxG/ Shots on Target)

Basically with shots on target Mes, is expected to have conceded 11.5 goals, compared to the 12 that have been actually recorded as Shots on Target.

Presumably The Firpo and Wober own goals are not classed as shots on target and thus not considered to be detrimental against a keeper

I've always interpreted it as any keeper that concedes +/- 1 expected goal compared to shots on target is performing as expected. Obviously it would be more preferable to have a keeper with a higher +

You must log in or register to see images

that’s where I check my keeper stats - the point is he’s below average… I’d say it’s too few games to give a fair reflection and as he faces fewer shots his results are more prone to being skewed than others. But if you look further back you see that last season, he was towards the bottom of the table. If you look at the season before, very near the bottom. The season before, bottom I think,

There’s more to keeping than stats but his strength is meant to be shot stopping (given what people think of his flapping at crosses and distribution). Statistically he is consistently near the bottom in shot stopping stats. It costs us goals and points. Genuinely if we had an average premier league keeper we would not have been relegated. Last year given Leicester’s keeper was 10/11 goals better on xg and Ipswich’s 5/6 goals better. There is a chance he cost us promotion too. I’m not trying to put that on one player, as it’s way more complex than that but if you want to look at stats it’s not pretty for him.

He’s had a couple of howlers this year. In isolation that’s no big deal, but the point is, we have, player for player, a top squad. Players at the top end of the league in pretty much every position. Except for goalkeeper, where we’re celebrating that this year he’s almost average.

 

[Aski]

that’s where I check my keeper stats - the point is he’s below average… I’d say it’s too few games to give a fair reflection and as he faces fewer shots his results are more prone to being skewed than others. But if you look further back you see that last season, he was towards the bottom of the table. If you look at the season before, very near the bottom. The season before, bottom I think,

There’s more to keeping than stats but his strength is meant to be shot stopping (given what people think of his flapping at crosses and distribution). Statistically he is consistently near the bottom in shot stopping stats. It costs us goals and points. Genuinely if we had an average premier league keeper we would not have been relegated. Last year given Leicester’s keeper was 10/11 goals better on xg and Ipswich’s 5/6 goals better. There is a chance he cost us promotion too. I’m not trying to put that on one player, as it’s way more complex than that but if you want to look at stats it’s not pretty for him.

He’s had a couple of howlers this year. In isolation that’s no big deal, but the point is, we have, player for player, a top squad. Players at the top end of the league in pretty much every position. Except for goalkeeper, where we’re celebrating that this year he’s almost average.

Think you already asked me to look at the previous seasons Milky, and I agreed with your assessment.

I've never denied that for a non logical reason I like Mes, but I wouldn't say my post today is defending him.

If it wasn't for the fact that Ristac was looking for stats, I wouldn't have posted about Mes at all, as it's difficult to defend him, stats wise.

So I'm not sure what I said in my post, to make you want to reiterate points you have previously made

 

[milkyboy]

Think you already asked me to look at the previous seasons Milky, and I agreed with your assessment.

I've never denied that for a non logical reason I like Mes, but I wouldn't say my post today is defending him.

If it wasn't for the fact that Ristac was looking for stats, I wouldn't have posted about Mes at all, as it's difficult to defend him, stats wise.

So I'm not sure what I said in my post, to make you want to reiterate points you have previously made

Other than me being a repetitive kinda guy? Wasn't directed at you fella, i replied to the your post because you'd posted the table, not questioning your logic or assessment... i recall we did his back catalogue on here a while back. I did this for Ristac and the one other person (maybe, maybe not?) sad enough to read it.

Obvioiusly it's also a reference point for the Meslier luvvies who want to say 'i told you so' everytime he makes a regulation save or gets through a game without a howler

 

[Leedsoflondon]

fair post, bud. Perhaps I damned him with faint praise. The other side of the coin is do we have to celebrate a game where he’s not at fault.

All keepers make mistakes playing out from the back, it’s an accepted hazard of the job. He has good days and bad days like most. Thought Tuesday was a bad day. But redeemed by his saves.

i don’t rate him but I do try to be objective. Maybe I need to try harder

Yes we do have to celebrate a game where he’s not at fault, they’re so ****ing rare

 

[Aski]

Other than me being a repetitive kinda guy? Wasn't directed at you fella, i replied to the your post because you'd posted the table, not questioning your logic or assessment... i recall we did his back catalogue on here a while back. I did this for Ristac and the one other person (maybe, maybe not?) sad enough to read it.

Obvioiusly it's also a reference point for the Meslier luvvies who want to say 'i told you so' everytime he makes a regulation save or gets through a game without a howler

No problem Milky, I was just confused with you quoting me, that I reread my post twice just to check if I was trying to use logic in my support for Mes.

I fully admit I like him, but there is no way I can come up with any argument to support my stance, it's entirely illogical, especially given my love of stats

 

[NostradEmus]

On Fbref you need to look under the advanced goalkeeping stats for that

its under PSxG (Post Shot expected goals) and PSxg/SOT (PSxG/ Shots on Target)

Basically with shots on target Mes, is expected to have conceded 11.5 goals, compared to the 12 that have been actually recorded as Shots on Target.

Presumably The Firpo and Wober own goals are not classed as shots on target and thus not considered to be detrimental against a keeper

I've always interpreted it as any keeper that concedes +/- 1 expected goal compared to shots on target is performing as expected. Obviously it would be more preferable to have a keeper with a higher +

You must log in or register to see images

I wanted Johannson at the beginning of last season. He was around 300k transfer fee and he was on something like 2k a week.

He's a better keeper than Meslier and we would have made a few quid and saved even more in wages.