JT's day in the dock!

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Miggins said:
I don;t knwo how he possibly could be found guilty, the lip readers say it's impossible to read what he said, Ashley Cole didn;t react which you think he would've if he'd heard ANYONE shouting 'you black ****'. I don't like JT, but to try and take him to court is a ****ing joke and is a big waste of my tax money, ****ing useless CPS, spend the money doing a ****ing banker for fraud for **** sake
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indeed !!:emoticon-0148-yes:
 
iamscottish said:
To be fair it is a waste of time and they are both a couple of ***** anyway........
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Both a couple what, iam....? I know you've described them with lots of asterisks, and they are well known for not going to finishing school, but thats not a criminal offence!!!
 
remembercolinlee said:
So if you have such a great grasp of racism then what's with the crap about lets just go have a pint. As for telling me that I need to live in asia as a white anglo saxon before I can talk to you about not grasping racism shows how arrogant or ignorant you are being. I deliberately stayed away from pointing out that I have had racist abuse thrown at me and my kids on the way to football matches cos some "anglo saxon" portsmouth fans decided they didn't want to share a tube train with us cos we "looked like ****ing terrorists"...If I told you that until you'd experienced that...or the letters with razorblades posted to us that my then 3 yr ol daughter picked up...then you have no right to comment on racism you'd be outraged.
Racism is serious...there is no excuse for it ... end of ... that is why it is illegal.
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What you are describing as happened to you is what I am also talking about, full on ,brutal, viscious racism based on hatred, ignorance and mob mentality.
What I described, and tried to do so ironically, which is a bit of a waste of time on here, is show the HUGE difference between what you describe , and an onfield ,ALLEGED, verbal spat, the only difference in intent and tone being the use of the word black. Both were insulting , both were intended to anger, and in my opinion, both as bad as each other.
You may not agree, but you won't change my mind about this particular event either, because I think there's more political correctness involved here than racism, which ,like you I have experienced hundreds of times over a sustained period especially in China , Indonesia and Japan.
And for what it's worth, in my retirement, I am a volunteer worker with underprivileged Aboriginal kids in Melbourne, so jumping to conclusions about arrogance and ignorance is not a smart move.
 
District Line said:
Easy there CP. I don't think colinlee thinks Terry is a racist very few believe that but I think to brush it under the carpet as others have done isn't right, I'm not saying you have by the way
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Not trying to brush it under the carpet DL, just trying to ironically point out that as racist incidents go, this is not much more than someone calling a South African a yarpy, an Englishman a Pommy bastard, an American a Septic Tank, an Indian Mahatmacoat. All could be unpleasant and insulting, depending on the emphasis, but for me, who has had worse than that sent my way, sorry, but it's all become more politically correct than racist. That is my only point, specifically this incident, not Racism generally.
And IF Terry did use the word black,
 
I don't think he'll be found guilty, Anton only "thinks" Terry called him that, Lip readers can't tell, Essien and Cole were closer to JT than Ferdinand was and didn't even flnch.

I think Terry is a bit of a Twat, but I doubt he's a racist twat.
 
Blimey coolhand--thats a lot of reading there! I've done the first 2 chapters! I'll pick up on it after lunch! I could do the complete works of Shakespeare a lot quicker.
 
Chelsea Pensioner said:
Not trying to brush it under the carpet DL, just trying to ironically point out that as racist incidents go, this is not much more than someone calling a South African a yarpy, an Englishman a Pommy bastard, an American a Septic Tank, an Indian Mahatmacoat. All could be unpleasant and insulting, depending on the emphasis, but for me, who has had worse than that sent my way, sorry, but it's all become more politically correct than racist. That is my only point, specifically this incident, not Racism generally.
And IF Terry did use the word black,
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It's not really though, is it? Anton is English first of all and I doubt black Englishman or anyother ethnicity Englishman would take as much offence to being called "pommy bastard". That's ignoring the fact that it's not racism and not against the law. Insulting someone because of their ethnicity is not acceptable in Britain, in any degree, whether it's using racist words or using their skin colour or other ethnic trait in conjunction with abusive language.
 
Yid Vicious said:
It's not really though, is it? Anton is English first of all and I doubt black Englishman or anyother ethnicity Englishman would take as much offence to being called "pommy bastard". That's ignoring the fact that it's not racism and not against the law. Insulting someone because of their ethnicity is not acceptable in Britain, in any degree, whether it's using racist words or using their skin colour or other ethnic trait in conjunction with abusive language.
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I know. I lived there for 30 years. Offence is taken depending on the intent and context of the statement.So a German, per say calling someone a Jewish Cnut or an Englishman calling Frenchman a surrender monkey ,could easily be determined to be a racist slur.
I happen to think in this particular case, that it is the context that's being warped and spun to ridiculous level.
Antonio Ferdinand claims he didn't hear anything on the pitch, yet his record of complaint suggests he did, but didn't hear it in the context Terry claims it was said.
Reading the full Transcript of Terry's evidence pre hearing, it is very clear to me the Police are grandstanding.
So I repeat, I am convinced this is more about political correctness, not racism, and should never be going to Court.
 
Chelsea Pensioner said:
I know. I lived there for 30 years. Offence is taken depending on the intent and context of the statement.So a German, per say calling someone a Jewish Cnut or an Englishman calling Frenchman a surrender monkey ,could easily be determined to be a racist slur.
I happen to think in this particular case, that it is the context that's being warped and spun to ridiculous level.
Antonio Ferdinand claims he didn't hear anything on the pitch, yet his record of complaint suggests he did, but didn't hear it in the context Terry claims it was said.
Reading the full Transcript of Terry's evidence pre hearing, it is very clear to me the Police are grandstanding.
So I repeat, I am convinced this is more about political correctness, not racism, and should never be going to Court.
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The FA wouldn't allow 'context' in the Suarez/Evra case,the panel said saying the word in whatever 'context' made him guilty.

A court of law should allow all aspects as admissable including 'context'
 
The first paragraph of this article is great (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-in-john-terry-racism-court-case-7924917.html)

"It was the moment when Anton Ferdinand was asked to demonstrate to the court the "shagging gesture" he had directed at John Terry that one assumed was the low-point of the day's proceedings at Westminster magistrates' court."

It looks like it's becoming a bit of farce (not that it wasn't before they started having to demonstrate actions and repeat phrases). I can't see what they are trying to achieve, beyond setting out a statement of intent on behalf of the FA in wake of a resurgence in racist activity/chanting in European football.
 
Chelsea Pensioner said:
I know. I lived there for 30 years. Offence is taken depending on the intent and context of the statement.So a German, per say calling someone a Jewish Cnut or an Englishman calling Frenchman a surrender monkey ,could easily be determined to be a racist slur.
I happen to think in this particular case, that it is the context that's being warped and spun to ridiculous level.
Antonio Ferdinand claims he didn't hear anything on the pitch, yet his record of complaint suggests he did, but didn't hear it in the context Terry claims it was said.
Reading the full Transcript of Terry's evidence pre hearing, it is very clear to me the Police are grandstanding.
So I repeat, I am convinced this is more about political correctness, not racism, and should never be going to Court.
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The first example you give is anti-semitic and the second is in no way racist because the French aren't a race. If Anton's correct in his version of events there's no doubt it's unacceptable and against the law which is why the police had to investigate having received a complaint and given that there is some video evidence the case simply had to go to court. Whilst you might think going to criminal court is extreme, the punishment if found guilty is much less than he'd get from the FA and as the criminal court requires a higher level of certainty to convict Terry's really better off having his case heard in court than by the FA for the sake of an extra couple of grand fine if guilty. The police clearly feel he has a case to answer as does the judge he has already shown leniency in allowing JT to delay the trial so clearly isn't caught up in any anti-Terry hysteria that some people seem to think exists. It's not about being PC, it's simply how it works.
 
Yid Vicious said:
The first example you give is anti-semitic and the second is in no way racist because the French aren't a race. If Anton's correct in his version of events there's no doubt it's unacceptable and against the law which is why the police had to investigate having received a complaint and given that there is some video evidence the case simply had to go to court. Whilst you might think going to criminal court is extreme, the punishment if found guilty is much less than he'd get from the FA and as the criminal court requires a higher level of certainty to convict Terry's really better off having his case heard in court than by the FA for the sake of an extra couple of grand fine if guilty. The police clearly feel he has a case to answer as does the judge he has already shown leniency in allowing JT to delay the trial so clearly isn't caught up in any anti-Terry hysteria that some people seem to think exists. It's not about being PC, it's simply how it works.
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Theres no "seem to think" about it. It's a fact the press and therefore the public are anti-Terry not to mention anti-Cole. To suggest otherwise is clear lunacy and it's that reason alone why I am glad JT is stood before a chief magistrate rather than a jury
 
District Line said:
Theres no "seem to think" about it. It's a fact the press and therefore the public are anti-Terry not to mention anti-Cole. To suggest otherwise is clear lunacy and it's that reason alone why I am glad JT is stood before a chief magistrate rather than a jury
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He looked like he said you black ****** but with Terry you dont know
 
Chelsea Pensioner said:
I know. I lived there for 30 years. Offence is taken depending on the intent and context of the statement.So a German, per say calling someone a Jewish Cnut or an Englishman calling Frenchman a surrender monkey ,could easily be determined to be a racist slur.
I happen to think in this particular case, that it is the context that's being warped and spun to ridiculous level.
Antonio Ferdinand claims he didn't hear anything on the pitch, yet his record of complaint suggests he did, but didn't hear it in the context Terry claims it was said.
Reading the full Transcript of Terry's evidence pre hearing, it is very clear to me the Police are grandstanding.
So I repeat, I am convinced this is more about political correctness, not racism, and should never be going to Court.
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<laugh>.

I do agree with you though in that I feel this whole thing is about Political Correctness rather than racism
 
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