Transfer Rumours Jorgensen

[Magnet]

Come on Rafa had his eyes open. We say what we want about Ashley he has been consistent in his message. He can spend what we generate.

I can't buy the idea they have said to Rafa at the start of the summer "Look you've got 60m". So he has went and spent 45m and they've turned round and said "you're not having the other 15m hahaha"

We would have heard about this from Rafa, Pardew or McClaren by now. Rafa himself intimated from the off that if he was lied to he'd be off. He's still here. I think Rafa would like more money. I think he'd like us to have beaten other to clubs to the signings of the likes of Abraham. I think he'd like the loan of Kenedy to have gone through. I suspect he fully understands the reasons all that didn't happen. He may be frustrated but he doesn't strike me as a guy who has been led down the garden path. If he has and Pardew, McClaren have before him, then they are just Ashleys well paid puppets

Personally I think Rafa just finds the job of running a PL club with limited resources very tough and frustrating.

I think Graham Carr was on that board actually for the football knowledge along with McClaren. I wouldn't defend Ashley at all. Some of the decision making and his knowledge of football, and how to run a club is shocking. He has owned up to that himself. I think he went for Rafa to help with that. I think Rafa will be trying his best. However if the money and resource isn't there it is really difficult.

So I blame Shepherd, Hall and co. They appointed Charnley all those years ago which allowed him to rise through the ranks.

Absolute rubbish.

Jorgensen is valued at £20M apparently. We have that money but can’t put in an acceptable bid never mind wages discussion. Ashley owns the Club. Ashley appointed Penfold into his current position. Ashley’s fault.

You can try and manipulate, fudge, sidestep, blindly ignore or just blatantly argue the Devil’s position to wind everyone else up but even you’re not that stupid to believe what you post.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

You're talking like Charnley doesn't have to run to Ashley any time he wants to spend money (clearly does)

And putting someone clearly inept at the job in an important positions because "he's a fan" is lame reasoning as to why it's not Ashley's fault. Plus what should rafa say, "the owners a ****"?

Ashley is responsible for Charnley, I've never said otherwise. Rafa agreed with him clearly. Its not great.

From what Rafa has said throughout since joining in 2016, he appears to know at all times what the budget is each window. He then gives targets to Lee Charnley who tries to make it happen. I don't think its a case of Ashley overseeing every transfer. Like any owner though, I think he gives a budget and hopes they stick to it. It appears this window if we are starting to try to spend upwards of 20m, some of that must be coming from the money not yet received. I can't see where we have generated it from otherwise?

I just think Ashley has stuck to his word. I also think Rafa knew exactly what the club was, which people were in what roles, and how much money the club had. He knew the challenge hence he is still there. He himself has confirmed all this in interviews when joining.

Is anybody really trying to say that Carr didn't go because Rafa wanted him gone? If he didn't rate Charnley having had 3-4 months to weigh him up he'd have just said "get rid of that **** too or I'm not signing". Rafa signed on the dotted line knowing it all. Nothing at all has changed. You can certainly say, sack Charnley but give Rafa a chance to work with the new guy. I just think saying there is some conspiracy or Rafa has been lied to is fantasy land.

 

[LiamO]

I don't think you can lay this solely at Ashley's door. Rafa has taken control of the scouting network since 2017 when we jettisoned Carr. Previously Carr was in place for previous 7 years. Carr wasn't a muppet - he had built a significant reputation in the game at the likes of Spurs and Man C. Ashley's guy in charge Llambias, Mort etc would have selected Carr based on that. It was done with the best intentions.

Of course what we don't know is what budget the scouting network is afforded. I assume Rafa knew what the scouting budget was and thought it could work? That said we have bought players from the likes of Germany, France, Holland, Spain etc so we do stretch into Europe certainly. We do seem to miss out on the South American market, maybe Africa too so that would suggest some sort of limitation is in place.

I know Ashley has employed them all so he is ultimately responsible for everything. I just think it is very easy to link everything back to him and money. He gave Rafa autonomy as requested, he has allowed him control of transfers, he has given him whatever money he can that is generated as promised. If Rafa ****s up its Mikes fault because he short changed him. Despite Rafa going in with his eyes open. If Rafa does well, there is not mention that Mike ultimately appointed him. I think because Ashley is so easy to loathe, then he can't win.

Clearly our scouting network did not operate superbly, and hasn't improved for Rafa taking control. I accept that. I can also accept Ashley engaged Carr and he has clearly missed out on lot. A lot of other clubs networks have too though. I don't think scouting is a perfect science due to opportunity, form, etc. We might have went to watch say Jose and he could have been in a bad trot. We might have scouted him 3 times and he's had 3 stinkers. Doesn't make him a bad player but would certainly mean you wouldn't risk it. Jorgensen is in fine form now but if you watched in any of his 18 Bundesliga appearances, you wouldn't have parted with 3m for him. You would after Copenhagen but you'd look back and think "that's risky given his last step up".

Maybe we do need to spend more on scouting and so on. However given we seem to be pumping the money back to Rafa that we generate, and people already think its not enough, maybe Rafa has decided spending more on scouting is not necessary at the expense of other areas, like transfers, youth team or whatever.

End of the day nobody knows what influence Rafa really has.! I think not a lot. I dont think things have changed that much since Pardew Left. Ashley is still a cnut and Penfold is still a numpty.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

Absolute rubbish.

Jorgensen is valued at £20M apparently. We have that money but can’t put in an acceptable bid never mind wages discussion. Ashley owns the Club. Ashley appointed Penfold into his current position. Ashley’s fault.

You can try and manipulate, fudge, sidestep, blindly ignore or just blatantly argue the Devil’s position to wind everyone else up but even you’re not that stupid to believe what you post.

Is it? You're basing all this on newspaper reports right? Sounds a bit stupid to me, they are bigger liars than Ashley every day of the week

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

End of the day nobody knows what influence Rafa really has.! I think not a lot. I dont think things have changed that much since Pardew Left. Ashley is still a cnut and Penfold is still a numpty.

I know but Rafa signed on to be part of this regime knowing exactly who owned the club, who ran it on his behalf, how little money the club had (although he has spent 104m in 2 seasons). I don't understand why Rafa is an angel and Ashley is the devil. Nobody has lied to anybody. We are just a PL also ran struggling along.

 

[Freddd]

I know but Rafa signed on to be part of this regime knowing exactly who owned the club, who ran it on his behalf, how little money the club had (although he has spent 104m in 2 seasons). I don't understand why Rafa is an angel and Ashley is the devil. Nobody has lied to anybody. We are just a PL also ran struggling along.

Rafa is an angel because he is trying to make the team better. Ashley is a devil because he isn't.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

Rafa is an angel because he is trying to make the team better. Ashley is a devil because he isn't.

Look if you not going to play the game and get dragged into some tedious never ending debate about Rafa/Ashley, by getting riled up at the suggestion that maybe Ashley isn't a ****, and Rafa isn't a god, then please refrain from responding. You're disturbing my angling.

 

[RobEllious]

So the conspiracy is now that Mike is in the background telling Lee to low ball the owners of other clubs to prevent us signing anyone?

I have to say I'm not convinced. Rafa doesn't appear to be backing this jackanory up either.

Rafa is not sticking around in the hope of a takeover. Rafa knows exactly what he got himself into. He knew the history under Ashley. He made agreements with Ashley. He had 3-4 months to weigh up the club, Charnley etc.

Just go back to what he said when he joined. He knew the score.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...benitez-stay-newcastle-manager-premier-league

No the reality is Charns is Mike's little bitch and will go running for confirmation before he uses any of MA's money. The only alternative is that MA actually has given Charns a budget and he's refusing to tell Rafa. That sounds implausible because it would be to nobody's particular gain and only serves to piss Rafa off. As Rafa keeps saying, he has no idea of what is actually available to him.

Disagree, the club he walked into was not the one it prevailed to be in under a years time. They'd started spending money and was chasing a respectable manager. They pulled the wool over Rafa's, and majority of fans, eyes. I mean the question is this, if the club is so transparent with their incoming managers, how come Keegan was able to walk out of his job but also successfully sue.
Plus if he knew the score why didn't he just **** off to West Ham when they were offering, or China for mo money and less stress.

 

[KazakhToon]

Wow, the amount of pissed off fans that will be there to greet him if and when he finally signs should be enough to scare him back to Feyenoord.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

No the reality is Charns is Mike's little bitch and will go running for confirmation before he uses any of MA's money. The only alternative is that MA actually has given Charns a budget and he's refusing to tell Rafa. That sounds implausible because it would be to nobody's particular gain and only serves to piss Rafa off. As Rafa keeps saying, he has no idea of what is actually available to him.

Disagree, the club he walked into was not the one it prevailed to be in under a years time. They'd started spending money and was chasing a respectable manager. They pulled the wool over Rafa's, and majority of fans, eyes. I mean the question is this, if the club is so transparent with their incoming managers, how come Keegan was able to walk out of his job but also successfully sue.
Plus if he knew the score why didn't he just **** off to West Ham when they were offering, or China for mo money and less stress.

Nah its still the same club. The simple question is has the club spent everything it has generated? The answer appears to be yes. That is what was promised and that is what has materialised.

Rafa can have only one complaint. Charnley has not turned out to be as good as Rafa thought he would be in terms of getting him the players he wanted.

Rafa has only not known his budget once. When the takeover held things up and he asked in a December what his budget was. Rafa confirmed on the 5th Jan he still hadn't heard what the budget was and again on the 12th. He has since confirmed he had a meeting with Ashley/Charnley and has been given the green light. That says to me he knows now what his budget is.

Not ideal but most clubs enter an embargo situation when negotiating a sale. So unless the whole takeover bid was a ruse by Ashley, Staveley etc to buy time in some weird conspiracy theory, it would be perfectly reasonable. Indeed you can understand why Ashley eventually said **** you, you are now playing with my asset. He has called it off and is trying to protect his asset by giving funds to Benitez.

Get behind the club and an owner doing his level best.

 

[RobEllious]

Ashley is responsible for Charnley, I've never said otherwise. Rafa agreed with him clearly. Its not great.

From what Rafa has said throughout since joining in 2016, he appears to know at all times what the budget is each window. He then gives targets to Lee Charnley who tries to make it happen. I don't think its a case of Ashley overseeing every transfer. Like any owner though, I think he gives a budget and hopes they stick to it. It appears this window if we are starting to try to spend upwards of 20m, some of that must be coming from the money not yet received. I can't see where we have generated it from otherwise?

I just think Ashley has stuck to his word. I also think Rafa knew exactly what the club was, which people were in what roles, and how much money the club had. He knew the challenge hence he is still there. He himself has confirmed all this in interviews when joining.

Is anybody really trying to say that Carr didn't go because Rafa wanted him gone? If he didn't rate Charnley having had 3-4 months to weigh him up he'd have just said "get rid of that **** too or I'm not signing". Rafa signed on the dotted line knowing it all. Nothing at all has changed. You can certainly say, sack Charnley but give Rafa a chance to work with the new guy. I just think saying there is some conspiracy or Rafa has been lied to is fantasy land.

Why would Charnley withhold the budget from Rafa then? I think Rafa gives a list and gets told they'll get back to him. He was pleasantly surprised by the Merino deal and wouldn't have wanted to use 12 mill on Murphy to then find out he can't get a keeper on 40k wages. Also Ashley wouldn't be prepared to go over his budget, that 20m has been sat there as a rainy day fund, the same way it did when we bought Sissoko, mbiwa etc.
But by extension Ashley would still not prefer to spend that actual 20m and would just as happily gamble (or not) by using that money if we're relegated. Honestly, we talk like we're a poor team compared to others, like our revenue is somehow worse than the majority of the league.

Yes, when joining. Is he saying that now? Or have the goalposts been moved?

No he spent all season unhappy with Carr's interference, like when they came to watch him and Murphy scored last season, then suddenly all the transfer funds were dead and reports were saying MA was unimpressed with the money spent in the summer (which I think Carr had little input into). The whole thing could have gone one way or the other really and to me it's clear he hasn't wanted to give him money from that point on. But do I think Rafa expected all that, and was in fact told all this by MA, when he started? Nar, what rafa wants rafa gets. Clearly a lie.

 

[General Lee Speaking]

There's a lot of slagging off Charnley but I'll bet he'd be seen as at least a decent negotiator if we didn't have the expenditure and wage restrictions that Ashley has imposed. We are going to show a huge profit for this financial year although I think it will be about 15 months until the financial statements are released and we know for sure. Simply put, we don't need to be run on such a shoestring budget.

 

[Henry Boy]

Imagine my disappointment everytime I see a notification in this thread and it’s just this debate..

 

[RobEllious]

Nah its still the same club. The simple question is has the club spent everything it has generated? The answer appears to be yes. That is what was promised and that is what has materialised.

Rafa can have only one complaint. Charnley has not turned out to be as good as Rafa thought he would be in terms of getting him the players he wanted.

Rafa has only not known his budget once. When the takeover held things up and he asked in a December what his budget was. Rafa confirmed on the 5th Jan he still hadn't heard what the budget was and again on the 12th. He has since confirmed he had a meeting with Ashley/Charnley and has been given the green light. That says to me he knows now what his budget is.

Not ideal but most clubs enter an embargo situation when negotiating a sale. So unless the whole takeover bid was a ruse by Ashley, Staveley etc to buy time in some weird conspiracy theory, it would be perfectly reasonable. Indeed you can understand why Ashley eventually said **** you, you are now playing with my asset. He has called it off and is trying to protect his asset by giving funds to Benitez.

Get behind the club and an owner doing his level best.

It hasn't spent everything it's generated, look at how say Villa have spent over the years, funny how they're not broke. Aside from the fact they have a far less popular 'brand' than us and didnt make **** all back on transfers out generally.

No he was being given the green light to start making movements for permanent transfers, as proven by the fact we were trying to loan Ings and **** at the start of the window. Like you say and embargo, literally no suggestion Benitez knows a figure, just like he said he didn't last window, and publicly pleaded for money the January before.

You can't say it's just Charnley doing no good when we couldnt afford 40k wages. Don't really get how that's Charnley.

always get behind the club, never get behind a man who changed your clubs stadium to Sports Direct Arena

 

[RobEllious]

Imagine my disappointment everytime I see a notification in this thread and it’s just this debate..

If debate disappoints your on the wrong site mate.
http://www.newsnow.co.uk/h/Sport/Football/Premier+League/Newcastle+United

That's the one!

 

[KazakhToon]

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[RobEllious]

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I got excited and thought it's a notification for a long-winded and pointless debate, then I find it's just an update on ****ing Jorgensen

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

It hasn't spent everything it's generated, look at how say Villa have spent over the years, funny how they're not broke. Aside from the fact they have a far less popular 'brand' than us and didnt make **** all back on transfers out generally.

No he was being given the green light to start making movements for permanent transfers, as proven by the fact we were trying to loan Ings and **** at the start of the window. Like you say and embargo, literally no suggestion Benitez knows a figure, just like he said he didn't last window, and publicly pleaded for money the January before.

You can't say it's just Charnley doing no good when we couldnt afford 40k wages. Don't really get how that's Charnley.

always get behind the club, never get behind a man who changed your clubs stadium to Sports Direct Arena

Wrong. This is a direct quote from Rafa in May:

“I could go away and make some money. If you go to China you can make a lot of money.

‘The priority for me was to stay. I decided to stay because of the fans, the club, the possibilities for the future and to stay in England close to my family.

‘Then the meeting was crucial to convince me to stay. Mike told me “We have this money, it is available, it’s OK”, so, fine, we were happy with that.’

“In January we didn’t sign players but we had £30m ready for the future, so now we are in a situation where we are going slowly but I still have confidence that everything will be fine after my meeting with Mike.

“He said that he would give us every last penny so hopefully he will do it and I’m confident that he will.

“I still have confidence that he will keep his word. We have the resources to do what we wanted and now we have to do it.

“I asked if I can spend all the money on one player or if I must spend it on many players.

“Mike said the budget is mine and I can do what I want with the numbers he has given me. It is the same with wages.

“We still have time to buy players until the end of next month and I am confident we will.”

He knows his budget. Unless you are saying Rafa is a liar?

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

This isn't some cloak and dagger scenario. Rafa seems to suggest Mike is very straight with him about money. He doesn't interfere how he spends it. He simply says that is the budget, you can't have any more than that as I'd have to put my hand in my pocket. Rafa said he was happy with the budget.

There was a delay when the club was about to be sold. I personally wouldn't spend a penny either if I was selling a football club and thought a deal might be done. I'd also pull the plug if I thought they were endangering the clubs long term health by trying to get a cheap deal.

You know the more I read and the more I see, I think Ashley is pretty sound.

 

[Magnet]

Wrong. This is a direct quote from Rafa in May:

“I could go away and make some money. If you go to China you can make a lot of money.

‘The priority for me was to stay. I decided to stay because of the fans, the club, the possibilities for the future and to stay in England close to my family.

‘Then the meeting was crucial to convince me to stay. Mike told me “We have this money, it is available, it’s OK”, so, fine, we were happy with that.’

“In January we didn’t sign players but we had £30m ready for the future, so now we are in a situation where we are going slowly but I still have confidence that everything will be fine after my meeting with Mike.

“He said that he would give us every last penny so hopefully he will do it and I’m confident that he will.

“I still have confidence that he will keep his word. We have the resources to do what we wanted and now we have to do it.

“I asked if I can spend all the money on one player or if I must spend it on many players.

“Mike said the budget is mine and I can do what I want with the numbers he has given me. It is the same with wages.

“We still have time to buy players until the end of next month and I am confident we will.”

He knows his budget. Unless you are saying Rafa is a liar?

But we still low ball offers just like we always did before Rafa came??