John Barnes says being black has damaged his career as a manager

[Tobes]

Love the hypocrisy.

Referring to someone's skin colour is awful but generalising a player by his place of birth/origin is acceptable.

Where do you want to stop? Cockney herbert, Scouse robber, Geordie biscuit, Manc twat, sweaty, wool?

Using someone's skin colour in a way that's meant as derogatory, has far deeper meaning than taking the piss with a throw away comment about their place of origin.

But you knew that........

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Where do you want to stop? Cockney herbert, Scouse robber, Geordie biscuit, Manc twat, sweaty, wool?

Using someone's skin colour in a way that's meant as derogatory, has far deeper meaning than taking the piss with a throw away comment about their place of origin.

But you knew that........

Keep telling yourself that. While we're at it, let's take the p*ss out of fat people, or short people, or people with ginger hair. That's all acceptable according to you, as long as you don't mention skin colour.

 

[Tobes]

Keep telling yourself that. While we're at it, let's take the p*ss out of fat people, or short people, or people with ginger hair. That's all acceptable according to you, as long as you don't mention skin colour.

All of the comments I've highlighted in the last few posts have been made by numerous posters on this very forum, in varying contexts, but generally in a light hearted manner, but still taking the piss.

But you'll not take issue with any of them and you never have, why not? Because you had no issue with it.

However, you've been desperate to try and make something out of that meaningless glib comment I made, which merely shows you up to be a hypocritical ****

 

[Bodinki]

If someone is snide, and is Eastern European, is calling them snide and Eastern European racist though?
Its stating a fact.
Same as JT, Anton is black and he is a **** They are not exclusive though.
There are plenty of white ****s too (foredeckdave, Shteve, UiR, Cpofl)

 

[BobbyD]

If someone is snide, and is Eastern European, is calling them snide and Eastern European racist though?
Its stating a fact.
Same as JT, Anton is black and he is a **** They are not exclusive though.
There are plenty of white ****s too (foredeckdave, Shteve, UiR, Cpofl)

I've always thought about this and Ron Atkinson got done for calling Desailly a Black **** which was deemed super offensive and racist by everyone even though he was technically correct in that Desailly is Black and Atkinson thought he was a ****.

I've always erred on the side of he's just calling them what they are but having thought about it some more, why can't just say Desailly is a ****. By adding their skin colour even if factually correct you are using it in a connotation of de-meaning them. Having said all that if someone called me a chinese **** i wouldn't call it racist although many others would.

 

[Bodinki]

I've always thought about this and Ron Atkinson got done for calling Desailly a Black **** which was deemed super offensive and racist by everyone even though he was technically correct in that Desailly is Black and Atkinson thought he was a ****.

I've always erred on the side of he's just calling them what they are but having thought about it some more, why can't just say Desailly is a ****. By adding their skin colour even if factually correct you are using it in a connotation of de-meaning them. Having said all that if someone called me a chinese **** i wouldn't call it racist although many others would.

Atkinson called him a "lazy ni**er" though didnt he?

 

[BobbyD]

Atkinson called him a "lazy ni**er" though didnt he?

Oh i didnt know that. I thought he called him a black ****. Alright please disregard my example . Should check my facts first

 

[Bodinki]

Big Ron

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[Deleted 1]

I've always thought about this and Ron Atkinson got done for calling Desailly a Black **** which was deemed super offensive and racist by everyone even though he was technically correct in that Desailly is Black and Atkinson thought he was a ****.

I've always erred on the side of he's just calling them what they are but having thought about it some more, why can't just say Desailly is a ****. By adding their skin colour even if factually correct you are using it in a connotation of de-meaning them. Having said all that if someone called me a chinese **** i wouldn't call it racist although many others would.

Interesting point - a lot of it can be about perception although I must admit i would consider it racist.. Personally I just think it's bloody rude so would seek to avoid name calling in the first place (though granted I fail sometimes!).

 

[UnitedinRed]

John Barnes claims he is struggling to get a job in management because he is black. The former Liverpool star’s last managerial job was at Tranmere Rovers in 2009. He lasted four months before being sacked. The 51-year-old has previously been in charge of Celtic and the Jamaica national team.
Barnes insisted that, had he been white, he would have got another job. “A white manager loses his job and gets another job, he loses his job, he gets another job. Very few black managers can lose their job and get another job,” he said on John Barnes: Sports Life Stories, to be broadcast on ITV4 on Tuesday.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/mar/30/john-barnes-black-managerial-career

I know this has been discussed before but a new programme about Barnes is to be aired tomorrow in which he claims the above.

Does he have a point?

None at all. Celtic fans curse his name to this day. He was a truly awful manager.

Idiots who pull the race card for no reason other than to hide their failings, should be hit in the face with a moron bat.

 

[BobbyD]

Interesting point - a lot of it can be about perception although I must admit i would consider it racist.. Personally I just think it's bloody rude so would seek to avoid name calling in the first place (though granted I fail sometimes!).

Sorry maybe i should maybe add some clarification. If i had done something bad or done something stupid or was in an argument with someone i wouldn't take chinese dick as a racist insult. He's just giving it out. If it was totally unprovoked and it was totally innocuous i would probably take it as racist but i suppose it depends on the context and how it was done.

 

[Page_Moss_Kopite]

None at all. Celtic fans curse his name to this day. He was a truly awful manager.

Idiots who pull the race card for no reason other than to hide their failings, should be hit in the face with a moron bat.

So, if he failed is he not entitled to another try at being successful at another club despite his skin colour?

Many white managers fail at one club but get employed by another, Barnes(and other black managerial hopefuls)know the racism exists but can't prove anyone of it because its untraceable like being one person's decision whether or not a black man gets the job and not having to explain or prove why he didn't get it.

 

[Tobes]

So, if he failed is he not entitled to another try at being successful at another club despite his skin colour?

Many white managers fail at one club but get employed by another, Barnes(and other black managerial hopefuls)know the racism exists but can't prove anyone of it because its untraceable like being one person's decision whether or not a black man gets the job and not having to explain or prove why he didn't get it.

Who says his failure to get another job was down to his skin colour?

How did he get a great job in the first place if racism is that rife in the game that a black man can't get a managers job?

How many times was he rejected? How far down the pyramid did he try and find work? Was he rejected from jobs in Europe on the same skin colour issue?

Strange how he managed to find work just as he was on the cusp on bankrupcy like.....

 

[BobbyD]

He did get another chance. He went to tranmere 8 years later and messed up there. Until Barnes tells us what he was doing for those 8 years (applying and getting rejected at a number of clubs who should be within his range not waiting for a united or real madrid).

Many white managers also don't get re-employed back into a manager role (there is conjecture whether they wanted another job, but i obviously cannot get that information), let me provide a list:

Billy Bonds (2 clubs successful at 1st made a hash towards the end and of his 2nd stint)
John Deehan
David O'Leary
Les Reed
Sammy Lee
Alan Curbishly
Roy Keane

I haven't even started looking at lower down the leagues where i suspect if you fail you don't get another chance.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

Interesting point - a lot of it can be about perception although I must admit i would consider it racist.. Personally I just think it's bloody rude so would seek to avoid name calling in the first place (though granted I fail sometimes!).

It is racist, you're right. He's confusing not being offended by it - which is completely different - with it not being racist. Something can be racist, intentional or unintentional and still not cause offence, that's another argument.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

63% of black managers have managed only once.

Compare that to 49% of all first time managers [which includes black managers] only manage once.

 

[Tobes]

63% of black managers have managed only once.

Compare that to 49% of all first time managers [which includes black managers] only manage once.

So you're saying than less than 4 out of 10 black mangers fail to get a 2nd job compared to just over 5 of all managers.......conclusive proof of inherent racism there like

The sample size will skew the results ffs.

You might be comparing 90 white managers stats with 10 black, therefore there'd be a much larger shift in the %ages based on 1 black managers career.

 

[UnitedinRed]

So, if he failed is he not entitled to another try at being successful at another club despite his skin colour?

Many white managers fail at one club but get employed by another, Barnes(and other black managerial hopefuls)know the racism exists but can't prove anyone of it because its untraceable like being one person's decision whether or not a black man gets the job and not having to explain or prove why he didn't get it.

Because he was absolutely ****ing ****e in all his jobs. Not just at Celtic. Making Celtic rubbish in a 2 team league was some achievement in it self.

What hes saying is "Hey, I am **** at this management lark but as I am black, give me a job or else I will cry racist"

Stick to rapping, Barnes.

 

[Page_Moss_Kopite]

Who says his failure to get another job was down to his skin colour?

How did he get a great job in the first place if racism is that rife in the game that a black man can't get a managers job?

How many times was he rejected? How far down the pyramid did he try and find work? Was he rejected from jobs in Europe on the same skin colour issue?

Strange how he managed to find work just as he was on the cusp on bankrupcy like.....

I never said his skin colour was to blame for him not getting a job, he did.

I was merely pointing out it shouldn't cost him the chance of a job at another club because failure never seems to stop serial failures getting other jobs and gaining more experience along the way.

Stop putting words in my grid Tobes.

 

[UnitedinRed]

I never said his skin colour was to blame for him not getting a job, he did.

I was merely pointing out it shouldn't cost him the chance of a job at another club because failure never seems to stop serial failures getting other jobs and gaining more experience along the way.

Stop putting words in my grid Tobes.

Maybe othera are just better suited to the jobs. Or maybe he just kept applying for the Liverpool and Chelsea jobs. In which case he had no chance.

Seriously though. Hes just not good enough. It happens.