Joe Allen

[Master Yoda]

Interesting that the BBC is reporting that the Allen deal is now imminent because Liverpool have offloaded Aquilani.

They must be assuming that the undisclosed transfer fee + wages saved + Rodgers' knowledge of Allen's contract (minimum release fee of £15 million) = Allen to Liverpool.

But Liverpool can't bid for a year unless we accept a bid from another club and the minimum release fee is only activated when one of Man U, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool bid.
So far only Spurs have bid and we can reject whatever they offer.

It seems to me we hold all the cards and Liverpool are far from favourites to land Allen.

How about we play hard ball and don't accept a Spurs bid unless it's circa £20 million. Could Liverpool afford him in those circumstances?

If Spurs don't bid anymore than £12-13.5 million than we sit tight and work on Allen signing a new and improved contract with a bigger release fee.
Of course if Laudrup thinks he can replace Allen and improve other positions with less than £15 million (I imagine he is negotiating with various clubs/players right now) than we can accept less...and only then do Liverpool stand a good chance.

On this deal we hold the superior negotiating position and he will only leave if it suits us.
Unlike Siggy the power is in our hands.

How do you know that for a fact?

Everything I've heard suggests that Allen can ask Swansea to allow him to speak to Liverpool if they meet the buy out clause, and they have to accept. Much like any buy out clause really.

And £20M? Come on, I know he's one of your best players but that's never going to happen.

Think the BBC are just speculating as well.

On another note, Sinclair had a good first touch last night!

 

[beppeswan]

we dont have to sell anyone unless they meet the minimum release fee, so dont sell unless we have players to replace him and he wants to go.

a few questions that he might want to ask himself are:-

1. will rodgers be there in 6 months?
2. if not will the new manger revert back to their old style which may not suit Joe and he will be stuck in the widerness
3. Would he want to go there and not necessarily play every game due to the current changes that are taking place at Liverpool.

i think that rodgers could change liverpool round but it aint no quick fix (Reading), we were ideal for Rodgers as our style has been inbred into the players for nigh on 8 years with various managers and all he needed was to fine tune to suit, liverpool aint swansea not by a long chalk.

Players are more high maintenance and will need a lot of coaxing i feel round to rodgers way of thinking.

Joe i hope / feel will give us another 6 months to see how rodgers does then he can say whether it is for him

 

[Terror ball]

liked that czech winger in the euros, named him in a previous thread but forgot his name

I thought the guy you liked was the Ukranian, Andriy Yarmelenko ?

 

[Master Yoda]

we dont have to sell anyone unless they meet the minimum release fee, so dont sell unless we have players to replace him and he wants to go.

a few questions that he might want to ask himself are:-

1. will rodgers be there in 6 months?
2. if not will the new manger revert back to their old style which may not suit Joe and he will be stuck in the widerness
3. Would he want to go there and not necessarily play every game due to the current changes that are taking place at Liverpool.

i think that rodgers could change liverpool round but it aint no quick fix (Reading), we were ideal for Rodgers as our style has been inbred into the players for nigh on 8 years with various managers and all he needed was to fine tune to suit, liverpool aint swansea not by a long chalk.

Players are more high maintenance and will need a lot of coaxing i feel round to rodgers way of thinking.

Joe i hope / feel will give us another 6 months to see how rodgers does then he can say whether it is for him

1 - Yes.
2 - We've always played a passing game which would suit Joe Allen.
3 - You'd have to ask him, but I imagine so.

On the change, we've played passing football since the seventies. Ajax taught us a lesson that we never forgot. Shankly knew that to win in Europe we had to keep the ball.

Our youth and reserve sides all play possession football and are coached by Borrell and Segura - both ex Barca, the coaches who brought through Messi, Fabregas and Pique.

So it's not a huge shift.

 

[Terror ball]

Or was it Yevhen Konoplyanka, who is quality also?

(both of these players are being tracked by Arsenal by the way, and both are 22).

 

[Master Yoda]

I thought the guy you liked was the Ukranian, Andriy Yarmelenko ?

Apparently Milan and the big German teams all want him, looked a decent player.

 

[aswan_dam]

Anyway, on Joe Allen... We've just returned from the USA and the clear out of players should begin now-ish. We've just got rid of Aquilani for around £5-7M. The Allen deal could happen.

It's time for your manager to leave us in peace and go after some Norwich players instead.

 

[Terror ball]

How do you know that for a fact?

Everything I've heard suggests that Allen can ask Swansea to allow him to speak to Liverpool if they meet the buy out clause, and they have to accept. Much like any buy out clause really.

And £20M? Come on, I know he's one of your best players but that's never going to happen.

Think the BBC are just speculating as well.

On another note, Sinclair had a good first touch last night!

Why not? Last summer you spent £20 million on Downing and £16 million on Henderson.
Allen has performed better than both of them in the Premiership.
Why should we accept less?
The rules of economics would suggest we should get even more than £20 million for him....
He has performed better, is integral to our club (representing what we are trying to do here, coming through our youth system) and we don't want to or need to sell. Meaning you have to pay a premium above the market rate to change our minds.

A gentleman's agreement is enforceable in English law, Jenkins has got Rodgers on public record admitting the agreement was made. The only way you could get him in the next 12 months against our will is if 1 of the big 4 trigger his release clause....in that scenario do you think he would choose you?


The best Liverpool can hope for is that Laudrup has his eye on a couple of players he thinks are better and cheaper and decides to take Liverpool's cash.
We are in control here

 

[Matthew Bound Still Lurks]

Why not? Last summer you spent £20 million on Downing and £16 million on Henderson.
Allen has performed better than both of them in the Premiership.
Why should we accept less?
The rules of economics would suggest we should get even more than £20 million for him....
He has performed better, is integral to our club (representing what we are trying to do here, coming through our youth system) and we don't want to or need to sell. Meaning you have to pay a premium above the market rate to change our minds.

A gentleman's agreement is enforceable in English law, Jenkins has got Rodgers on public record admitting the agreement was made. The only way you could get him in the next 12 months against our will is if 1 of the big 4 trigger his release clause....in that scenario do you think he would choose you?


The best Liverpool can hope for is that Laudrup has his eye on a couple of players he thinks are better and cheaper and decides to take Liverpool's cash.
We are in control here

You're not Huw in disguise by any chance ?

 

[beppeswan]

1 - Yes.
2 - We've always played a passing game which would suit Joe Allen.
3 - You'd have to ask him, but I imagine so.

On the change, we've played passing football since the seventies. Ajax taught us a lesson that we never forgot. Shankly knew that to win in Europe we had to keep the ball.

Our youth and reserve sides all play possession football and are coached by Borrell and Segura - both ex Barca, the coaches who brought through Messi, Fabregas and Pique.

So it's not a huge shift.

I know you have always played a passing game as i have always kept an eye out for the reds since the early eighties, but am i right in saying that rodgers produced a dossier to the owners of all the changes that he wanted to instill into the club.

his game is not based on possession football as a whole but is based on a high tempo short passing and moving game which as you can see with the GB side (as an example) it is not as easy to get some players to play as you need players all over the park to gel this is what i was getting at in regards to him getting enough time to get his philosophies across unlike reading where he didnt have that bad a start but wasnt a good enough start.

i still hope that rodgers gets the time as i think he has the ability to suceed and if joe is to leave us then yours would be the only club that i would like him to go to, just think it might be better for all parties if he stays with us personally for a bit longer <>

 

[Master Yoda]

I know you have always played a passing game as i have always kept an eye out for the reds since the early eighties, but am i right in saying that rodgers produced a dossier to the owners of all the changes that he wanted to instill into the club.

his game is not based on possession football as a whole but is based on a high tempo short passing and moving game which as you can see with the GB side (as an example) it is not as easy to get some players to play as you need players all over the park to gel this is what i was getting at in regards to him getting enough time to get his philosophies across unlike reading where he didnt have that bad a start but wasnt a good enough start.

i still hope that rodgers gets the time as i think he has the ability to suceed and if joe is to leave us then yours would be the only club that i would like him to go to, just think it might be better for all parties if he stays with us personally for a bit longer <>

Cheers!

The funny thing for me is that Team GB seem to play far, far better football than England did at the Euros.

 

[Master Yoda]

Why not? Last summer you spent £20 million on Downing and £16 million on Henderson.
Allen has performed better than both of them in the Premiership.
Why should we accept less?
The rules of economics would suggest we should get even more than £20 million for him....
He has performed better, is integral to our club (representing what we are trying to do here, coming through our youth system) and we don't want to or need to sell. Meaning you have to pay a premium above the market rate to change our minds.

A gentleman's agreement is enforceable in English law, Jenkins has got Rodgers on public record admitting the agreement was made. The only way you could get him in the next 12 months against our will is if 1 of the big 4 trigger his release clause....in that scenario do you think he would choose you?


The best Liverpool can hope for is that Laudrup has his eye on a couple of players he thinks are better and cheaper and decides to take Liverpool's cash.
We are in control here

That's why we won't spend big any more - we overspent last year. Think about it.

Hmm, I can't believe that you genuinely think he's worth £20M or more. Ultimately he'll be worth whatever gets paid for him, regardless of his worth to Swansea.

We don't know the full details of the agreement do we? Why wouldn't he choose Liverpool? Big club, better team, ambitious, Rodgers, more chances than he'd get at United or something.

Of course you're in control, you're the selling club after all. But that could change depending on the player. Who knows what'll happen.

 

[beppeswan]

Cheers!

The funny thing for me is that Team GB seem to play far, far better football than England did at the Euros.

They are at least trying to play football not like england who were dire to say the least, have said all along too many prima donnas and the welsh contingent obviously

 

[Terror ball]

That's why we won't spend big any more - we overspent last year. Think about it.

Hmm, I can't believe that you genuinely think he's worth £20M or more. Ultimately he'll be worth whatever gets paid for him, regardless of his worth to Swansea.

We don't know the full details of the agreement do we? Why wouldn't he choose Liverpool? Big club, better team, ambitious, Rodgers, more chances than he'd get at United or something.

Of course you're in control, you're the selling club after all. But that could change depending on the player. Who knows what'll happen.

Your poor management and the business decisions they have taken is your club's problem and yours alone.

The market value has been set by the amount of money the ****ers at Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea and Tottenham (...and to a lesser degree Man U) have been splashing about.
The T.V. Money has just been increased.
The teams you are competing with for a top 4 spot have buckets of cash.
So you either pay the market value or you **** off.

The Americans' strategy seems to be to steal Swansea's manager and players to bring the wage bill down and free up funds for some marquee signings down the road.
They must think we were born yesterday, we weren't.

 

[Kifflom!]

Steal? Thought we were paid handsomely, actually. Come on. As for players, nothing's happened yet. Personally I'd have taken £12M for Allen.

 

[Toela65]

Interesting that the BBC is reporting that the Allen deal is now imminent because Liverpool have offloaded Aquilani.

They must be assuming that the undisclosed transfer fee + wages saved + Rodgers' knowledge of Allen's contract (minimum release fee of £15 million) = Allen to Liverpool.

But Liverpool can't bid for a year unless we accept a bid from another club and the minimum release fee is only activated when one of Man U, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool bid.
So far only Spurs have bid and we can reject whatever they offer.

It seems to me we hold all the cards and Liverpool are far from favourites to land Allen.

How about we play hard ball and don't accept a Spurs bid unless it's circa £20 million. Could Liverpool afford him in those circumstances?

If Spurs don't bid anymore than £12-13.5 million than we sit tight and work on Allen signing a new and improved contract with a bigger release fee.
Of course if Laudrup thinks he can replace Allen and improve other positions with less than £15 million (I imagine he is negotiating with various clubs/players right now) than we can accept less...and only then do Liverpool stand a good chance.

On this deal we hold the superior negotiating position and he will only leave if it suits us.
Unlike Siggy the power is in our hands.

Nonsense.

I am assured Joe's release clause trumps the Rodgers clause and if Liverpool bid the required amount (£15m) and Joe wants to go there there is nothing that can be done about it.

At the very most it could go to a tribunal to see which clause applies or wins but legal bods I've spoken to have said Joe's would be considered the most applicable as to dent him a move if Liverpool bid £15m would be restraint of labour/trade and legally Liverpool/Joe would win.

Liverpool don't have to bid any more than £15m no matter what other teams bid as his release clause is £15m. Simple.

Why do you think the journos who have the most inside knowledge of Liverpool (Chris Bascombe, Tony Barrett, Ben Davies) are all saying that all that needs to happen is Liverpool bid £15m and thats that? There not just making it up its what Liverpool have briefed them as Rodgers knows Joe's contract inside out and I imagine they will have taken legal advice on this.

 

[Matthew Bound Still Lurks]

Aggers going then , any of this sound familiar ?


Originally Posted by Bozz
Expires Aug 2014
Then sod them. Make it a punitive price tag. We don't need to sell so it's how much they want to buy. And put a very short deadline on it so we have time to accommodate replacements.

So: £35 million, one week to decide. Reason for Closing of this thread: "You're a bit of a dick and I don't like you."

Hope this clears up any questions you have.

 

[Toela65]

That's why we won't spend big any more - we overspent last year. Think about it.

Hmm, I can't believe that you genuinely think he's worth £20M or more. Ultimately he'll be worth whatever gets paid for him, regardless of his worth to Swansea.

We don't know the full details of the agreement do we? Why wouldn't he choose Liverpool? Big club, better team, ambitious, Rodgers, more chances than he'd get at United or something.

Of course you're in control, you're the selling club after all. But that could change depending on the player. Who knows what'll happen.

I don't understand why people are not getting this.

He has a £15m release clause THEREFORE the 5 clubs named in his contract only have to bid £15m and Swansea can't do anything about other than take legal action which I'm advised they would lose.

Why are people talking about wishful thinking of £20m?

There's only 2 things that will stop this now:

1) Allen doesn't want to move
2) Liverpool refuse to meet the £15m release clause.

The clause in Rodgers contract saying he can't bid is worthless.

 

[Norway-jack]

So why have an agreement not to sign our players if the first thing that 2 faced **** does is try and sign our players ??

Our chairman hit the nail on the head when he mentioned that he "was extremely dissapointed details of Joe allens contract was made public via the media" what the guy above said about Liverpool hacks being breifed by the club makes perfect sense to me.
There is an unsavoury persuit of Joe Allen that is boardering on illegal IMO, im not refering to his contract(though its clear to see that rodgers has used this info) but in the way media stories have been pumped out on a regular basis with no real information regarding the player himself. Swansea have said they will discuss this with Joe Allen after the olympics while Liverpool seem to want him signed up in the next few days!!

A total lack of respect for SCFC and Joe Allen has been the way Liverpool have conducted this sorid affair, a once great club is now taking on a very American tone in the way it conducts its buisness, to actively persue our player when there is already an agreement in place NOT to is nothing short of shameful and lacks class, Liverpool may well get Joe Allen, and they may do well under rodgers, but the more i see how this is playing out the more respect i lose for Brenden and LFC.

Karma is a wonderful thing, what will be will be

 

[Master Yoda]

I don't understand why people are not getting this.

He has a £15m release clause THEREFORE the 5 clubs named in his contract only have to bid £15m and Swansea can't do anything about other than take legal action which I'm advised they would lose.

Why are people talking about wishful thinking of £20m?

There's only 2 things that will stop this now:

1) Allen doesn't want to move
2) Liverpool refuse to meet the £15m release clause.

The clause in Rodgers contract saying he can't bid is worthless.

Oh and bonymaenjack, I don't think Agger's leaving. Just paper rubbish. He's happy and recently said he'd love to sign a new deal. If he does leave we'll get a lot of money for him.