James McClean

Hun Baiter said:
It's another reason why I want independence - to be away from the Westminster bubble. Some dafties think the Tories (and New Labour) are good for the economy. The only economy they care about is their own pockets. Any benefits the rest of us receive are purely unintentional and short-term.
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What makes you think politicians in a Scottish parliament will be any less venal and self-serving?
 
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Huggy Bear said:
What makes you think politicians in a Scottish parliament will be any less venal and self-serving?
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Aye, but think of all the oil big man, we've got loads of it. Even though you can't even get a toothless street hooker for the price of a barrel of oil these days...allegedly
 
Huggy Bear said:
What makes you think politicians in a Scottish parliament will be any less venal and self-serving?
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For a start, we don't wholly rely on a first-past-the-post electoral system which regularly returns the same politicians regardless of how ineffectual they are. Secondly, the Scottish electorate is a lot more switched on to politics and less likely to be swayed by Murdoch owned newspapers. Also, there's far less lobbying allowed at Holyrood than there is at Westminster.

The biggest problem with Westminster is that it's been getting away with it for so long that they are almost untouchable. Whether Holyrood would avoid the same fate is debatable.
 
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Hun Baiter said:
For a start, we don't wholly rely on a first-past-the-post electoral system which regularly returns the same politicians regardless of how ineffectual they are. Secondly, the Scottish electorate is a lot more switched on to politics and less likely to be swayed by Murdoch owned newspapers. Also, there's far less lobbying allowed at Holyrood than there is at Westminster.

The biggest problem with Westminster is that it's been getting away with it for so long that they are almost untouchable. Whether Holyrood would avoid the same fate is debatable.
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What makes you say the Scottish voters are more switched on? Serious question(for once).
 
Hun Baiter said:
For a start, we don't wholly rely on a first-past-the-post electoral system which regularly returns the same politicians regardless of how ineffectual they are. Secondly, the Scottish electorate is a lot more switched on to politics and less likely to be swayed by Murdoch owned newspapers. Also, there's far less lobbying allowed at Holyrood than there is at Westminster.

The biggest problem with Westminster is that it's been getting away with it for so long that they are almost untouchable. Whether Holyrood would avoid the same fate is debatable.
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With regard to the point at hand, you make a good point about the first-past-the-post system and ineffectual MPs. However, my experience in the Netherlands leaves me with serious doubts about whether proportional representation is any fairer in terms of giving the electorate the government they voted for.

As regards Holyrood being any less corrupt, I seriously doubt it. Human nature hasn't changed since the Greeks invented democracy, and MSPs will be subject to the same temptations as all politicians ever since.
 
Hun Baiter said:
The referendum.
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Because there was a higher turnout? Not sure that means they are more switched on. If so, by your reckoning, the No voters were more switched on than the Yes voters, as the 4 places that voted Yes had the lowest turnout
 
monacoger said:
Because there was a higher turnout? Not sure that means they are more switched on. If so, by your reckoning, the No voters were more switched on than the Yes voters, as the 4 places that voted Yes had the lowest turnout
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No. People started to ask questions of the politicians and the political systems in this country and at Westminster. They saw the power of the Establishment in full swing and saw it for the ugly monster that it is. They realised that WM was fully under the control of the rich and the powerful and the only way to break free from it was to vote Yes (apart from the easily scared: the old, the stupid, huns).

The referendum created political groups the length and breadth of the country and saw massive increases in party membership for all parties (apart from the Tories).
 
Hun Baiter said:
No. People started to ask questions of the politicians and the political systems in this country and at Westminster. They saw the power of the Establishment in full swing and saw it for the ugly monster that it is (apart from the easily scared: the old, the stupid, huns).

The referendum created political groups the length and breadth of the country and saw massive increases in party membership for all parties (apart from the Tories).
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And the Tories are the only ones whose support isn't prolapsing like ST's farter at one of his acorn picking parties.
 
Hun Baiter said:
No. People started to ask questions of the politicians and the political systems in this country and at Westminster. They saw the power of the Establishment in full swing and saw it for the ugly monster that it is (apart from the easily scared: the old, the stupid, huns).

The referendum created political groups the length and breadth of the country and saw massive increases in party membership for all parties (apart from the Tories).
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Oh well, if they started asking questions, that's a different story! At the end of the day people are idiots, they only vote because their mates are voting for that particular party etc. there should be an IQ test for people pass before they can vote. To say the Scottish voters are more switched on is utter bollocks
 
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ST, tell me why the lowest turnouts were the places that the Yes vote won. Yet another serious question
 
monacoger said:
Oh well, if they started asking questions, that's a different story! At the end of the day people are idiots, they only vote because their mates are voting for that particular party etc. there should be an IQ test for people pass before they can vote. To say the Scottish voters are more switched on is utter bollocks
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**** off, dumbo. It took you three years to work out how to post a picture on here so you've got no right to call anyone stupid. If you were still allowed in Britain you'd probably vote UKIP.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...arty-hit-huge-fall-members-flop-Election.html
 
monacoger said:
The lowest out of the whole of Scotland, everything is comparable
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Aye, and everything's relevant. I would suggest that a Yes vote offered hope to those who've been abandoned by successive Tory and Labour governments at Westminster so the Yes vote was highest in "poorer" areas who, historically, have a lower voter turn out than well off areas.
 
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