Is LVG underachieving?

[UnitedinRed]

That last bit isn't necessarily true, the results are the be all end all bit.
I very much doubt it will but should the football on offer not improve then people stop going. Simple as that.

Sounds drastic and it would take a few years to happen but **** football to secure top four won't bring in 75k crowds forever.

Right now the end justifies the means as we're third and do need to get back into Europe.
Whatever you say though, we are not currently playing top four football and there are a number of teams breathing down our neck.

****e football for the past 3 or 4 years has had little to no impact on attendances.

What is top 4 football? We have defensively minded Chelsea who will grind out or bore the opposition into submission. City who won their first game of the year this week. United grinding results out and the rest huffing and puffing but little else.

As you say yourself. The ends justify the means. Its about getting back into europe. Right now we are on course and while we play awful stuff a lot of the time, we rarely get beat. If we continue like that then we will finish top 4.

 

[UnitedinRed]

Which better sides aren't getting the results he's getting?

Only Evra from that list and arguably Vidic was significant. Ferdinand had been a liability for years and Giggs was decent but nothing special.

On the flip side, do you think Van Gaal would be doing considerably better with those four still playing?

The whole league is apparently better...

And yes he would. With those 4 in the squad he would have leaders. We have Rooney and RvP. I doubt they would have played too much but their influence and guidence would have helped. To lose all 4 was massive. 4 of the leagues best ever in their positions.

 

[Chief]

We were winning the league. The manager at that time happened to be a legend who brought decades of excellence to the club.
There's this thing called loyalty.

Van Gaal is neither so far and hasn't warranted any loyalty. IF we carry on as we are, that the football isn't easy on the eye, it won't be tolerated without league titles to go with it.

 

[UnitedinRed]

We we're winning the league. The manager at that time happened to be a legend who brought decades of excellence to the club.
There's this thing called loyalty.

Van Gaal is neither so far and hasn't warranted any loyalty. IF we carry on as we are, that the football isn't easy on the eye, it won't be tolerated without league titles to go with it.

Fully agree. I do however expect van Gall to revert to normal next season. For that he requires a solid and reliable defence.

 

[Diego]

And those six have, overall, been a poor use of £150m thus far. It's part of the manager's remit to get the best out of players and he's evidently not doing that.

Yes, players have left, but of nowhere near the value or salary of those brought in.

You say results win over performance but why can't he do both (he's barely doing either)? All the comparable sides do including Chelsea.

This years wage bill has dropped by 2.8%, do you think one of the tea ladies might hare retired?

 

[Christiansmith]

This years wage bill has dropped by 2.8%, do you think one of the tea ladies might hare retired?

The amount of money spent is a red herring for now. We just have to be happy with an improvement any improvement. I've read moronic would be wums saying" you've improved but did you get £150m worth?" .

The RS spent >£100m but did they get that amount worth of improvement ? They went backwards compared to last year

[HASHTAG]#brendaforlife[/HASHTAG]

 

[LFC_45]

The amount of money spent is a red herring for now. We just have to be happy with an improvement any improvement. I've read moronic would be wums saying" you've improved but did you get £150m worth?" .

The RS spent >£100m but did they get that amount worth of improvement ? They went backwards compared to last year

[HASHTAG]#brendaforlife[/HASHTAG]

the amount your paying your new signings you should be walking the league. We had a slow start but things are picking up now

 

[CFC: Champs £launderx17]

This years wage bill has dropped by 2.8%, do you think one of the tea ladies might hare retired?

Link? All I can find is this

 

[Diego]

Link? All I can find is this

My bad, £2.9mil/ quarter not %

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-financial-results-debt-5151195

Not the one i read but close enough

 

[Diego]

the amount your paying your new signings you should be walking the league. We had a slow start but things are picking up now

What a strange thing to say. We could pay the whole team £1m/week each it wouldn`t make them play any better

 

[UnitedinRed]

My bad, £2.9mil/ quarter not %

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-financial-results-debt-5151195

Not the one i read but close enough

Which looking at the November financials works out at about 6%.

It dropped £3.2 million to about £50milliom in the months upto November which was 6.6%

 

[Diego]

Which looking at the November financials works out at about 6%.

It dropped £3.2 million to about £50milliom in the months upto November which was 6.6%

Couldn`t be arsed working out the percentage after i dropped a bollock in the first post. Thanks for that

 

[cytrax]

People need to be philosophical. I hear Scholes say United need to take risks and suggested it is why we've always had the best goal keepers to accommodate that risk. I think he's talking nonsense. When United were leaking goals at the back, the whole country got on the team and laughed at LVG. Then he changed the system to stop the leakage which has now obviously impacted the attacking instincts, and they are still crying.

Apart from the games that we've drawn over xmas period, we would have been right up there fighting for the title. Nonetheless, it is all should have would have! But, going forward, I am very positive about the team. If United can qualify for Champions League, I think it would take massive pressure off the team and allow the players and manager to be more expressive and creative with all the tools we have.

Just gotta hold tight and hope Champions league place is secured.

 

[Treble]

People need to be philosophical. I hear Scholes say United need to take risks and suggested it is why we've always had the best goal keepers to accommodate that risk. I think he's talking nonsense. When United were leaking goals at the back, the whole country got on the team and laughed at LVG. Then he changed the system to stop the leakage which has now obviously impacted the attacking instincts, and they are still crying.

Apart from the games that we've drawn over xmas period, we would have been right up there fighting for the title. Nonetheless, it is all should have would have! But, going forward, I am very positive about the team. If United can qualify for Champions League, I think it would take massive pressure off the team and allow the players and manager to be more expressive and creative with all the tools we have.

Just gotta hold tight and hope Champions league place is secured.

None of that accurate I'm afraid. I couldnt care less what the whole country were saying but none were mocking goals conceded, they were questioning how vulnerable our defence looked (this started following the leicester game) and they STILL continue to do so. There was no leakage back then that was any worse than what it has been since he made the chamges. And there's been no change (rightly or wrongly) in how vulnerable the whole country thinks our defence is now compared to then.

As for the xmas period, well the truth is that our performances were pretty average right up to the xmas period but we conceded few and ground out results. Crystal palace, west ham, west brom, chelsea, arsenal typical of that. That hasnt changed either. We werent conceding any more then than we are now (bar the West Brom game). Then just when he gets the balance of the team right against Hull, he changed it again to what it is today. But the truth is the defence looks just as strong/vulnerable today as it was then, he started with 3 CBs and still persists with it now, our attacking play has remained largely as unimaginative as it has been all season. There's been little if any change except we now dont have as many injuries.

And as your last sentence suggests, we all hope and keep fingers crossed we claw our way over the finish line to top 4. If we do then I do believe he will strengthen the squad further and make us better next season. But I'm not going to rewrite the season to defend his decisions so far this season. The fact is I could understand his thinking IF he actually tried to play players in their correct positions bcos if it didnt work we would all understand. But even though he himself admits he's still trying to find his best team, he doesnt play a balanced midfield, puts our best striker in there while persisting with Falcao up front,and while he does that his decisions deserve to be questioned.

 

[Diego]

None of that accurate I'm afraid. I couldnt care less what the whole country were saying but none were mocking goals conceded, they were questioning how vulnerable our defence looked (this started following the leicester game) and they STILL continue to do so. So no change there in terms of what the whole country rightly or wrongly thinks.

As for the xmas period, well the truth is that our performances were pretty average right up to the xmas period but we conceded few and ground out results. Crystal palace, west ham, west brom, chelsea, arsenal typical of that. That hasnt changed either. We werent conceding any more then than we are now (bar the West Brom game). Then just when he gets the balance of the team right against Hull, he changed it again to what it is today. But the truth is the defence looks just as strong/vulnerable today as it was then, he started with 3 CBs and still persists with it now, our attacking play has remained largely as unimaginative as it has been all season. There's been little if any change except we now dont have as many injuries.

And as your last sentence suggests, we all hope and keep fingers crossed we claw our way over the finish line to top 4. If we do then I do believe he will strengthen the squad further and make us better next season. But I'm not going to rewrite the season to defend his decisions so far this season. The fact is I could understand his thinking IF he actually tried to play players in their correct positions bcos if it didnt work we would all understand. But even though he himself admits he's still trying to find his best team, he doesnt play a balanced midfield, puts our best striker in there while persisting with Falcao up front,and while he does that his decisions deserve to be questioned.

He has a big decision to make at the end of the season. Falcao needs a fair crack at proving himself, you don`t spend that kind of money on a guy who has hardly played, on the other hand you don`t want to throw away a player of his talent without seeing if he still has it.
RVP is the problem at the moment (not his fault), he is too similar in his movement to Falcao. Both of them would be better playing alongside Rooney or Wilson but van Gaal is trying to be fair to (make a decision on) Falcao and fit RVP and Rooney in the same team.
It will not work, he knows what van Persie can do so he needs to drop him to see if Falcao can do his stuff.

 

[Tobes]

You've be been largely ****e to watch, but you've been winning, sometimes you have scratch your head as to how, but a win is a win.

Had you not been getting results then I'm sure Van Gaal would be under massive pressure given the quality of the football being played, but it's a results business and as long as he keeps delivering on that score, ultimately people won't care in the short term at least.

 

[Treble]

You've be been largely ****e to watch, but you've been winning, sometimes you have scratch your head as to how, but a win is a win.

Had you not been getting results then I'm sure Van Gaal would be under massive pressure given the quality of the football being played, but it's a results business and as long as he keeps delivering on that score, ultimately people won't care in the short term at least.

Yeh I agree and I also feel if he gets us top 4 he will improve our football and how much we're competing for major honours next season.

However the flaw in what you're saying (and what others are too) is that even though we may be picking up results, IF our performances dont improve we may get fcked later at the business end. Anyone who's learned anything about Fergie or the PL knows that. You need momentum and we dont have any. The worry is by the time these chickens come home to roost it will be too late.

 

[Christiansmith]

None of that accurate I'm afraid. I couldnt care less what the whole country were saying but none were mocking goals conceded, they were questioning how vulnerable our defence looked (this started following the leicester game) and they STILL continue to do so. There was no leakage back then that was any worse than what it has been since he made the chamges. And there's been no change (rightly or wrongly) in how vulnerable the whole country thinks our defence is now compared to then.

As for the xmas period, well the truth is that our performances were pretty average right up to the xmas period but we conceded few and ground out results. Crystal palace, west ham, west brom, chelsea, arsenal typical of that. That hasnt changed either. We werent conceding any more then than we are now (bar the West Brom game). Then just when he gets the balance of the team right against Hull, he changed it again to what it is today. But the truth is the defence looks just as strong/vulnerable today as it was then, he started with 3 CBs and still persists with it now, our attacking play has remained largely as unimaginative as it has been all season. There's been little if any change except we now dont have as many injuries.

And as your last sentence suggests, we all hope and keep fingers crossed we claw our way over the finish line to top 4. If we do then I do believe he will strengthen the squad further and make us better next season. But I'm not going to rewrite the season to defend his decisions so far this season. The fact is I could understand his thinking IF he actually tried to play players in their correct positions bcos if it didnt work we would all understand. But even though he himself admits he's still trying to find his best team, he doesnt play a balanced midfield, puts our best striker in there while persisting with Falcao up front,and while he does that his decisions deserve to be questioned.

The press has to write something to grab the headlines. If not about defence, then it will about midfield and the attack. The reality is that unless United are winning and winning/challenging for the title or CL, they will always be under scrutiny and always criticised. The other big clubs are the same to a lesser extent. The fact that the defence is still being criticised tells you a lot although it is now one of the meanest. Yes, teams will come to OT and attack United like Burnley did. If a team comes to attack that's fine and United will ahve to deal with it. But did they win? No. The defence coped. Everyteam enjoy some luck but are United lucky every time they win or could it be the way they play?

It is not all good. But it is not all bad. I said the same as Moyes when he was here. Then I said the players we had were simply **** and not good enough even though they had previously won the title the season before. The hunger and desire had gone and it has been proved correct. The players are much better and the sqaud has been revamped. But to expect a title challenging/winning season just becasue United spent 150m-200m plus is deluded IMO.

These things take time to turn round and we'll see at the end of next season whether United is near or far the likes of Chelsea and City. LVG had to start somewhere. When a team like United were being bossed by a middling team at OT, it confirmed the low point that United had reached and drastic measures were needed. LVG for all his meddling and fiddling with the midfield and attack has made United difficult to beat at OT. No one (not even the so called champions elect Chavs) came to OT and lord it over United. City coming to United will be a test for them and for us.

He says he is looking for his best system. I think we need to give him the benefit of the doubt. Yes, the use of Rooney is really baffling when we have specialist midfielders like Herrera, Mata, Fellaini, young in the squad. As I say there may be method in the "madness"?

The simple fact is that if he gets 4th even by the skin of his teeth then he would have been successful. No matter how he got there and how many hundreds of millions were spent.

 

[Treble]

He has a big decision to make at the end of the season. Falcao needs a fair crack at proving himself, you don`t spend that kind of money on a guy who has hardly played, on the other hand you don`t want to throw away a player of his talent without seeing if he still has it.
RVP is the problem at the moment (not his fault), he is too similar in his movement to Falcao. Both of them would be better playing alongside Rooney or Wilson but van Gaal is trying to be fair to (make a decision on) Falcao and fit RVP and Rooney in the same team.
It will not work, he knows what van Persie can do so he needs to drop him to see if Falcao can do his stuff.

He's giving them a chance but tying one arm behind their back by playing Rooney in midfield. Part of the problem is Falcao himself but part of it is the service. And Di Maria is also suffering as a result btw.

 

[Tobes]

Yeh I agree and I also feel if he gets us top 4 he will improve our football and how much we're competing for major honours next season.

However the flaw in what you're saying (and what others are too) is that even though we may be picking up results, IF our performances dont improve we may get fcked later at the business end. Anyone who's learned anything about Fergie or the PL knows that. You need momentum and we dont have any. The worry is by the time these chickens come home to roost it will be too late.

Only time will tell, but conversely winning breeds confidence and confidence in quality players usually ends up delivering consistent results. Personally I think you'll just scrape 4th come May.