Off Topic International Break Thread

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maggie blanchflower said:
Quite frankly I find that insulting implying that I may be regarded as a Nazi because I enjoy supporting my country. If that is the case there must be an awful lot of Nazi's around judging by the huge support around the country. To equate something that happened 90 years ago to present day is ludicrous. I get fed up with being told I musn't be patriotic or enjoy the Last Night of the Proms. It was my parents generation who fought the Nazis. It was us kids who lived through the bombing & all the shortages for years afterwards. Thank goodness my Dad came back but so many didn't and I sometimes wonder was it all worth it? With social media dictating so much bad behaviour, booing anthems, bullying etc. So glad it was not around in my day. I am not a 'little Englander' by the way, I had a lovely Welsh Mum and just wish Wales were the other finalists. As for the other cryptic part of post I don't think I want to know....
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Well said.

The Huddlefro said:
I just think that expecting fans who are posting on a football thread, on a football forum, to celebrate England reaching a final which is a historic achievement for the team, to immediately caveat every post with the political disclaimer is a bit OTT. It’s a discussion absolutely worth having but in the immediate aftermath of the game I think expecting people to want that when they’re drunk on the joy of football (and significant amounts of beer lol) is perhaps unrealistic. Fair play for sticking to your guns and continuing to bring up these points though, it’s something you’re clearly passionate about even if I don’t agree with you 100% of the time. Discussion is what this place is all about and it’s ok not to agree <cheers>
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Also well said

Football’s coming home <cheers>
 
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"Thanks for that Brian" said:
Well said.

Three of my grandparents were born in other countries and came to England/London to escape persecution and poverty. I am appalled by the recent return to the thinking of division and racism but I don't comprehend any reason why I should allow that to interfere with my enjoyment of tomorrow's game and to stop me celebrating if we win. This England team is socially and ethnically diverse, as is the nation that they represent. A load of ****s claiming otherwise doesn't make it so. They don't speak for me or mine and they're peddling a load of bollocks.

All this crap comes around every 40 years or so and started up in the '70's as well. Young people rejected it on favour of a culture that embraced tolerance and understanding through music that crossed all boundaries and cultures. It's time for my kids generation to do the same. I think that they will.
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Spot on; let's make sure the right wing nasties don't spoil it. To most of us, it's just about football. It's not even about patriotism to me. Sport is not a good bedfellow for nationalism or politics generally. I hope people look at international football as similar to club football. Most of us align ourselves to a team because of where we are from and because we have a common interest with people we know - and it's often a cross we have to bear. It's sport - not war or politics.
You make a very good point about the ethnic background of the team - it mirrors the country.
I don't think the boneheads realise how ethnically diverse we have always been; we have always had immigration. There is nobody whose heritage is solely "English".
 
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littleDinosaurLuke said:
Spot on; let's make sure the right wing nasties don't spoil it. To most of us, it's just about football. It's not even about patriotism to me. Sport is not a good bedfellow for nationalism or politics generally. I hope people look at international football as similar to club football. Most of us align ourselves to a team because of where we are from and because we have a common interest with people we know - and it's often a cross we have to bear. It's sport - not war or politics.
You make a very good point about the ethnic background of the team - it mirrors the country.
I don't think the boneheads realise how ethnically diverse we have always been; we have always had immigration. There is nobody whose heritage is solely "English".
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You underestimate the commitment of the inbreeding community
 
vimhawk said:
My family came to this country before WW1 fleeing religious persecution. We were taken in by this country and prospered. My grandfather fought in WW1, my father fought in WW2 and I also served. I don't know why I shouldn't be proud of, and thankful to this country, nor why I should not be patriotic. There is no direct link to nationalism or racism in being patriotic. As far as Rule Britannia goes, I heard an expert talking about the lyrics and he thought that "slaves" was probably in there because it rhymed with "waves" - nothing more sinister than that (sometimes the most mundane explanations are the actual ones!) But even having said that, the song says *Britons* won't be slaves. It doesn't either specify white Britons - it's completely non-discriminatory - or that Britain is going to make anyone else slaves. So I'm rather irked that people use their own interpretation, then get upset based on their own interpretation.

Having said all that there is a minority that take it all too far, and I wonder what might happen if we lose tomorrow.
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I don't think anyone has suggested that people shouldn't support the team. And of course it's natural to be grateful for kind treatment. But I think it's the people you need to thank, not the country. Once the country starts having a separate existence from the people, all sorts of bad things start to happen. People should act out of love and respect for other people, not countries.
How I wish I could just show support for the team because I respect them rather than because of the flag they play under. No other England team in my life has more deserved it.
 
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vimhawk said:
My family came to this country before WW1 fleeing religious persecution. We were taken in by this country and prospered. My grandfather fought in WW1, my father fought in WW2 and I also served. I don't know why I shouldn't be proud of, and thankful to this country, nor why I should not be patriotic. There is no direct link to nationalism or racism in being patriotic. As far as Rule Britannia goes, I heard an expert talking about the lyrics and he thought that "slaves" was probably in there because it rhymed with "waves" - nothing more sinister than that (sometimes the most mundane explanations are the actual ones!) But even having said that, the song says *Britons* won't be slaves. It doesn't either specify white Britons - it's completely non-discriminatory - or that Britain is going to make anyone else slaves. So I'm rather irked that people use their own interpretation, then get upset based on their own interpretation.

Having said all that there is a minority that take it all too far, and I wonder what might happen if we lose tomorrow.
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Rule Britannia was written in 1740's after thousands of British slaves were eventually freed. From 16th - 18th century they were captured by Barbary pirates operating out of North Africa. They captured fishermen at sea and men, women & children from Devon & Cornish coastal villages and even, in 1631 sacked the Irish town of Baltimore, taking 100 men, women & children. In 1625 1000 sea men from Plymouth alone had been taken. The Royal Navy were busy with the Civil War, Plague, conflicts with France, Spain, Portugal & Dutch Republic and had to few ships to spare. To cut a long story short the Merchants worried about lack of seaman, the seamen themselves were so worried about being kidnapped that they went off to work for other countries so Charles 1st brought in Gunboats and slowly but surely things got back to normal and the famous Rule Britannia got written. So the line Britain never will be slaves meant exactly that, no hidden agenda. There is much more on this moment in history, this is just the briefest of outlines. To anyone interested read 'When Britons Were Slaves in
Africa'. Its a BBC History site.
 
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Diego said:
In the PL he would have been off-side by VAR, in this tournament (and in the Euro's) they seem to be going off feet position which is a much better call.
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It was close for sure. Thought he looked just, just onside by any measure but I’m watching on a pretty grainy TV in a bar so could be wrong.
 
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