Spain had Morata, England have Kane. Spain have a better midfield than England but the English defence is better. There is little to fear about the Italians, good side but more than beatable.
Just a reminder, but the Brazilian fans in 2014 were guilty of the following - Booing other team's national anthems - Jeering when the opponents strung two passes together - Making all manner of excuses for their team's cheating - Acting as if their team had a divine right to win the tournament - Being enabled by incredibly sycophantic media coverage There's a reason why the largest case of schadenfreude in human history occurred when the Germans put seven past them in their own backyard
I'm with you Maggie, most of the time I've not a clue with this goddamn interweb net thing , I'm trying to connect my phone to the hifi via bluetooth, the instructions are 1 line , simple ? Oh no the damn thing is not having it
1. Don't want you to be called a "Nazi" for your enthusiastic support of England (in the 1930s England played Germany, and in one game the whole England team did the Nazi salute - for "diplomatic" reasons) . 2. I was expecting an 'I may be old, but I'm not THAT old' in response.
I have my fears about the opposition. Hopefully those fears will not become brutal reality. < time will tell >
That doesn't clear it up. What was with the M W and ........O business. Are you equating taking the knee to giving the nazi salute? If not, why include it?
I agree with your sentiments by and large. As others have been quick to point out, you can't tar everyone with the same brush, but we do seem to have large numbers of the type you describe in England. The association with Empire is something we still haven't shaken off; "Great Britain", "Rule Britannia" etc. This unwarranted superiority complex is still with us - and it spills over through events such as this.
And don't get me started on the last night of the Promos ...mainly because Inside No9 took care of that a few weeks back
Quite frankly I find that insulting implying that I may be regarded as a Nazi because I enjoy supporting my country. If that is the case there must be an awful lot of Nazi's around judging by the huge support around the country. To equate something that happened 90 years ago to present day is ludicrous. I get fed up with being told I musn't be patriotic or enjoy the Last Night of the Proms. It was my parents generation who fought the Nazis. It was us kids who lived through the bombing & all the shortages for years afterwards. Thank goodness my Dad came back but so many didn't and I sometimes wonder was it all worth it? With social media dictating so much bad behaviour, booing anthems, bullying etc. So glad it was not around in my day. I am not a 'little Englander' by the way, I had a lovely Welsh Mum and just wish Wales were the other finalists. As for the other cryptic part of post I don't think I want to know....
Just catching up on this thread. Straw-manning you was a low blow and one I apologise for. I too find a lot of the punditry and commentary in bad taste for the same reasons and I don’t like the more jingoistic elements of England fandom and English national pride in general. There’s a fine line between pride in your nation and unwarranted exceptionalism and I think it’s one that a lot of media and people in this country (and indeed many countries) don’t tread very well. Not a dig at anyone on here btw I think we all agree, regardless of how we feel about patriotism, flag waving at football games, the last night of the proms etc., that governments use sport for their own, often divisive ends. I don’t dispute that. Sportswashing is real and it’s important to be aware of it. I just think that expecting fans who are posting on a football thread, on a football forum, to celebrate England reaching a final which is a historic achievement for the team, to immediately caveat every post with the political disclaimer is a bit OTT. It’s a discussion absolutely worth having but in the immediate aftermath of the game I think expecting people to want that when they’re drunk on the joy of football (and significant amounts of beer lol) is perhaps unrealistic. Fair play for sticking to your guns and continuing to bring up these points though, it’s something you’re clearly passionate about even if I don’t agree with you 100% of the time. Discussion is what this place is all about and it’s ok not to agree
I still think there is too much being read into the vast number of people that love football wanting their nation to win their first major tournament for a very long time for many probably for the first time in their lifetime. I am here for the football not the politics and I don't think the two are one and the same thing. As for cheating, new don't cheat anymore than anyone else, certainly no more than our opponents tomorrow night do, they are and always have been masters of the darkest arts, and if we have closed the gap in order to be competitive then why should I care, 2 FIFA level referees looked at the challenges on Stirling in the semi final and decided that he was fouled, but some people here know better than the trained officials because they don't like Stirling.
Agree with the first 2 paragraphs. However you cannot tell me that trained officials are always correct, many have never played football and make astoundingly poor decisions. I am convinced Sterling dived, not because I don't like him (in many ways I admire some of his public statements) but because what I saw was not a foul in my opinion.i have no agenda except I don't like cheating and my opinion is he dived.
No you are quite right officials are not always right, but they are the arbiters of the rules, and I whilst I don't deny that it was a 'soft' decision two players in my opinion impeded him one from behind which is as we all know is often penalised these days even if contact with the ball is made and to my eyes (as a trained official) no contact with the ball was made, whether there was sufficient contact for him to fall over is hugely debatable but whether we like it or not those decisions are given more often than not in the modern game. I would also suggest that the ref was consistent if he got that wrong, because there was not much wrong with Shaws challenge for Denmarks free kick and even after that it should have been re-taken as the Denmark players were too close to the wall when it was taken. 2 wrongs don't make a right but they do say these things even up over time and we have had our fair share of shocking decisions in the knock out stages of tournaments.
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https://www.channel4.com/news/euro-2020-musician-billy-bragg-and-commentator-calvin-robinson-debate-england-taking-the-knee-ahead-of-final?fbclid=IwAR0zKD4t1EFKfBBLpMBGx7JvCT1kno_jUFupHqcnJP5kq8PR7Z5ZZjGdVRA&h=AT1OCh6E2Q2y4PxNsxJuj0QMIhHMNTCqs6SIWmhVCw9GjumZzGl8O_yecQLsYVhPJSLDkwV2ylCXAE0bPQbmS1yiabLOxK5Nng3TyEXMb5ySr4iSuSByIGO2-crg-dchMD6v1MN_LNcn_Y-vitMQ&__tn__=H-R&c[0]=AT1-Xum7yEtRjDJ9GcS9eXRUafzkyxMi1Qs56aRxSt-W8pGuMzRXaV8AYbx0Hv13UU-zraKdJJxr4mrbqokTDTHttGe_yq9sGiCKFkwoL_r_SZYva5wD_1RjU5x2OsilLGc_eyGb365FZsDtItnzMItTiTakanzkcGffAmUMCQxqPYhlnu09JsR9bQoXx1CTh5O8Tk3ny3sEqN2HmQn9X1A93JUxWM-a8DABWqcvgUcL8A Listen to Billy I don't know who the other bloke is he is talking nonsense but Bills description of patriotism works for me
My family came to this country before WW1 fleeing religious persecution. We were taken in by this country and prospered. My grandfather fought in WW1, my father fought in WW2 and I also served. I don't know why I shouldn't be proud of, and thankful to this country, nor why I should not be patriotic. There is no direct link to nationalism or racism in being patriotic. As far as Rule Britannia goes, I heard an expert talking about the lyrics and he thought that "slaves" was probably in there because it rhymed with "waves" - nothing more sinister than that (sometimes the most mundane explanations are the actual ones!) But even having said that, the song says *Britons* won't be slaves. It doesn't either specify white Britons - it's completely non-discriminatory - or that Britain is going to make anyone else slaves. So I'm rather irked that people use their own interpretation, then get upset based on their own interpretation. Having said all that there is a minority that take it all too far, and I wonder what might happen if we lose tomorrow.
Well said. Three of my grandparents were born in other countries and came to England/London to escape persecution and poverty. I am appalled by the recent return to the thinking of division and racism but I don't comprehend any reason why I should allow that to interfere with my enjoyment of tomorrow's game and to stop me celebrating if we win. This England team is socially and ethnically diverse, as is the nation that they represent. A load of ****s claiming otherwise doesn't make it so. They don't speak for me or mine and they're peddling a load of bollocks. All this crap comes around every 40 years or so and started up in the '70's as well. Young people rejected it on favour of a culture that embraced tolerance and understanding through music that crossed all boundaries and cultures. It's time for my kids generation to do the same. I think that they will.
