HOW LONG DO WE GIVE HIM ?

[DUNCAN DONUTS]

A "UB" clause should be standard when hiring coaches. Instead it sounds like a golden parachute in a CEO's contract.

It sounds silly but something like .

Go a calendar month without losing get a bonus

Become the leagues worst defense trigger a fire clause

Go a calendar month & more without registering a win trigger a fire clause

Gain promotion get a percentage of the sky money

 

[SuffolkCanary]

It sounds silly but something like .

Go a calendar month without losing get a bonus

Become the leagues worst defense trigger a fire clause

Go a calendar month & more without registering a win trigger a fire clause

Gain promotion get a percentage of the sky money

Yes it should be performance related pay. Low monthly wage with big bonuses for 3 points, medium bonus for a draw and nothing added for a loss. The same could go for players!

 

[SuffolkCanary]

I think Connor Southwell of the PinkUn said on their most recent podcast that we are still paying off Farkes 5 year deal and still paying off Smiths contract. The more scary thing is apparently because Wagner is on an annual rolling contract, even if we got to January and sacked him, after his first full year, we would still have to pay him up for another year because of the rolling aspect!

 

[DHCanary]

I think Connor Southwell of the PinkUn said on their most recent podcast that we are still paying off Farkes 5 year deal and still paying off Smiths contract. The more scary thing is apparently because Wagner is on an annual rolling contract, even if we got to January and sacked him, after his first full year, we would still have to pay him up for another year because of the rolling aspect!

Honestly, when the alternative was probably a 2+ year deal from the outset, we're probably still in the territory where we're better off with the rolling contract.
Dean Smith got 2.5 seasons
Farke initially had 2 seasons.
Alex Neil had a 1 year rolling deal.
Hughton had a 3 year deal.
Lambert had a 1 year rolling deal.

 

[Canary Spring]

because Wagner is on an annual rolling contract, even if we got to January and sacked him, after his first full year, we would still have to pay him up for another year because of the rolling aspect!

I don't get that (?). As I understand it, if either party decides not to renew at the end of the first year, the contract is done.

 

[Farked19]

My understanding of " rolling" is there is constantly a year remaining.

 

[Robbie BB]

I don't get that (?). As I understand it, if either party decides not to renew at the end of the first year, the contract is done.

My understanding of " rolling" is there is constantly a year remaining.

My understanding is that you are both in a way right. A rolling contract can be terminated at any time by either party, but with an agreed period of notice -- as happened with Webber. So the reference to "one year" in "one year rolling contract" is in effect referring to the period of notice, the contract itself having no specified termination date.
Of course, there is a further question of what happens if, their services having been dispensed with, the contractee in question gets another job within the period of notice. You would think that contracts might well have clauses that preclude someone from being employed by Club A yet continuing to paid by former clubs B and C, e.g. Farke by Leeds, Norwich and Monchengladbach.

 

[carrowcanario]

I think Connor Southwell of the PinkUn said on their most recent podcast that we are still paying off Farkes 5 year deal and still paying off Smiths contract. The more scary thing is apparently because Wagner is on an annual rolling contract, even if we got to January and sacked him, after his first full year, we would still have to pay him up for another year because of the rolling aspect!

Shouldn't of sacked Farke and shouldn't sack Wagner at present. We currently have 5 most likely first 11 starters injured and I would say of the 5, 3 are key players. Most Championship teams would struggle under those conditions. We do however need to get rid of a few of our constant under achievers i.e. Hernadez & Idah.

 

[Canary Spring]

A rolling contract can be terminated at any time by either party, but with an agreed period of notice

So, one question is: How long is the notice period? One month? Two months? Two weeks? I can see with Webber being an SD that the club would want a long notice period.

You would think that contracts might well have clauses that preclude someone from being employed by Club A yet continuing to paid by former clubs B and C, e.g. Farke by Leeds, Norwich and Monchengladbach.

Right on point, Robbie. I could understand if clubs made up the difference in pay, if necessary, for a limited period of time. Maybe a lump sum severance pay would be better.

 

[Robbie BB]

So, one question is: How long is the notice period? One month? Two months? Two weeks? I can see with Webber being an SD that the club would want a long notice period.

From The Athletic, 6th January 2023: "Norwich City have confirmed the appointment of David Wagner as their new head coach. He has signed a 12-month rolling contract with Norwich."

 

[Canary Spring]

Shouldn't of sacked Farke and shouldn't sack Wagner at present. We currently have 5 most likely first 11 starters injured and I would say of the 5, 3 are key players. Most Championship teams would struggle under those conditions. We do however need to get rid of a few of our constant under achievers i.e. Hernadez & Idah.

I agree with all you said except the Hernadez & Idah part. Unfortunately, neither will ever be a stalwart for NCFC. But both can add something when they're playing. ie. neither is terrible IMO.

 

[Farked19]

Sacking managers at the drop of a hat is a bad practice. Both for the club and the sacked manager.

 

[SuffolkCanary]

Sacking managers at the drop of a hat is a bad practice. Both for the club and the sacked manager.

I’m never usually one to advocate sacking a manager and I always prefer to give them time, in fact I was one of the outspoken few thinking (wrongly) that we should give Dean Smith more time after the World Cup.
I understand we have significant injuries which have severely hampered the teams performance, however I believe Wagner was heavily involved in the recruitment of the old boys - if not they matched his criteria at least. Ignoring the end of last season results, the teams that we are capable of putting out this season are still strong by championship standards man for man, we should be doing better than we are. There have been clear issues with set up I.e playing a very high line and pushing our full backs up the pitch against teams with quick strikers leaving us massively exposed. A lack of defensive structure in midfield. A failure to adjust the system for missing players. An inability to positively change performances in game or change structure - the Cardiff game aside.

 

[carrowcanario]

I’m never usually one to advocate sacking a manager and I always prefer to give them time, in fact I was one of the outspoken few thinking (wrongly) that we should give Dean Smith more time after the World Cup.
I understand we have significant injuries which have severely hampered the teams performance, however I believe Wagner was heavily involved in the recruitment of the old boys - if not they matched his criteria at least. Ignoring the end of last season results, the teams that we are capable of putting out this season are still strong by championship standards man for man, we should be doing better than we are. There have been clear issues with set up I.e playing a very high line and pushing our full backs up the pitch against teams with quick strikers leaving us massively exposed. A lack of defensive structure in midfield. A failure to adjust the system for missing players. An inability to positively change performances in game or change structure - the Cardiff game aside.

I'm not sure the old boys were recruited to play every game. I would have thought more a case of bring some experience to the squad and rotation.

 

[Robbie BB]

I'm not sure the old boys were recruited to play every game. I would have thought more a case of bring some experience to the squad and rotation.

Exactly. Who in their right minds would recruit players in their thirties to deliver a high energy, high intensity, pressing game, two or three times a week, week after week, in the Championship of all leagues? To repeat what I posted in the QPR thread: "I doubt if anyone thought the idea in summer 2023 was to field starting elevens with the highest average age in the division. The idea was to provide more guidance and support to the talented but inexperienced, not to push them down the order."

 

[SuffolkCanary]

I'm not sure the old boys were recruited to play every game. I would have thought more a case of bring some experience to the squad and rotation.

I think Duffy and Barnes certainly were brought it in to play every game, the former at the very least until Hanley comes back. Batth and Hwang were almost certainly brought in as back ups. I think I’m right in saying that 4 of our CBs are over 30 now, only Warner who isn’t and he’s lacking experience.

To continue with my rant a bit more, we also have a worrying over reliance on McLean and Sara as the midfield 2, no matter how good or bad they are playing they are getting 90mins every week.

 

[SuffolkCanary]

Exactly. Who in their right minds would recruit players in their thirties to deliver a high energy, high intensity, pressing game, two or three times a week, week after week, in the Championship of all leagues? To repeat what I posted in the QPR thread: "I doubt if anyone thought the idea in summer 2023 was to field starting elevens with the highest average age in the division. The idea was to provide more guidance and support to the talented but inexperienced, not to push them down the order."

I would agree with you Robbie and yet we have the one young high energy, high intensity pressing winger stuck in the bench struggling to get 5mins each week in Sainz. He was brought in under Wagner and should suit what he wants perfectly and yet he barely gets a kick. I know he was injured but I think Springett has more appearances than him, certainly more minutes!

 

[SuffolkCanary]

I'm not sure the old boys were recruited to play every game. I would have thought more a case of bring some experience to the squad and rotation.

We don’t see rotation though, all the old boys start and the young lads are on the bench other than Rowe

 

[carrowcanario]

We don’t see rotation though, all the old boys start and the young lads are on the bench other than Rowe

Which young lads do you think should be playing that he's not playing ? What about Idah, Fisher, Gibbs ?

 

[DUNCAN DONUTS]

Which young lads do you think should be playing that he's not playing ? What about Idah, Fisher, Gibbs ?

Tzolis