Hope Powell

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PompeyLapras said:
Vanessa Raynbird.

Oh wait, she was manager of Saints then you got rid of her for a man and got relegated three times. Karma's a bitch eh.
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Karma is a real bitch i agree, 3 relegations after cheating to buy success and trophies with money you dont have proves that.
 
fatletiss said:
It's a good debate Saintbirdsnest and I think I see your point. Couple of points though.

I have no problem referring to someone as "black" or "white'. They are descriptive words and to me don't imply a "view".

You have said that your statement was only sweeping or generalized if it is misinterpreted, yet in the next sentence you say "as a general rule" and "on the whole". I still think that is sweeping.

What is wrong with supporting equality? I would say that supporting it is better than going against it. Equality isn't about having even numbers, it is about the right person for the job based on skill sets and abilities. I also am not uptight about acknowledging differences regarding personalities between genders, because I don't acknowledge that. We have evolved as a race and continue to evolve even as different genders. One could argue that men are evolving into a more varied type with less authoritarian skills and greater soft skills.
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A sweeping statement is when you generalize a whole group based on one, or very few, examples. I was not generalizing a whole group. I did not say all women are less authoritative etc. I said most women are less authoritative. It was not a sweeping statement as I acknowledged that there will be considerable exceptions to the rule.

In terms of what you say about there being nothing wrong with supporting equality, I couldn't agree more. I'm happy to put my neck on the line and say I support equality more than most, as politically I'm a Marxist, and that's an extreme version of equality. I agree that if there were a women with a suitable set of abilities, then of course they should be given the job. If I were a chairmen, and I had the choice between a man and a woman, and the woman was more suited, obviously I would choose the woman. I just argue that as a football manager, it is more likely to be the man who is best suited to the job due to his inherent advantages. It will not always be the man of course, but more often than not the man will make a better football manager than the women, for my aforementioned reasons.

On your last point, I agree again actually. I tend to get the impression that young people are less inclined to fulfill the alpha male stereotype than previous generations. In other words, yes, men can be seen nowadays as perhaps less authoritative and having greater 'soft skills'. Nevertheless, men compared to women still command more authority. Similarly, women compared to men still have greater 'soft skills'. But for me, commanding the authority of the dressing room is a necessary prerequisite of success as a manager, and for that reason there will always, or at least in the foreseeable future, be more successful men than successful women as managers of football teams.
 
fatletiss said:
Wow, this is such a generalized, sweeping and naïve statement. "Men are more authoritative on the whole"; "Women too will obviously have their advantages, such as dealing with players as people better". These two comments alone are appalling. I think you need to re-write those with a precursor: "In my experience and the people I have met only...."

For every authoritative man, I'll quote you an equally authoritative woman (you even did yourself). For every woman with good people skills (soft skills is what I think you mean), I'll quote you a hard nosed bitch or a man with equal soft skills for "dealing with people better".

I'm sorry if this post sounds rude SaintBirdsnest, but your post to me shows an underlying bigotry in itself; you just might not realize it's there.
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As Fatletiss says I could quote more authoritative or physical women than most men (the aforementioned Maggie Thatcher, Fatimer Whitbread, etc). As for men not running away with emotions, come on guys how many times have you followed a part of your anatomy in making a decision
 
Saint Birdsnest said:
A sweeping statement is when you generalize a whole group based on one, or very few, examples. I was not generalizing a whole group. I did not say all women are less authoritative etc. I said most women are less authoritative. It was not a sweeping statement as I acknowledged that there will be considerable exceptions to the rule.

In terms of what you say about there being nothing wrong with supporting equality, I couldn't agree more. I'm happy to put my neck on the line and say I support equality more than most, as politically I'm a Marxist, and that's an extreme version of equality. I agree that if there were a women with a suitable set of abilities, then of course they should be given the job. If I were a chairmen, and I had the choice between a man and a woman, and the woman was more suited, obviously I would choose the woman. I just argue that as a football manager, it is more likely to be the man who is best suited to the job due to his inherent advantages. It will not always be the man of course, but more often than not the man will make a better football manager than the women, for my aforementioned reasons.

On your last point, I agree again actually. I tend to get the impression that young people are less inclined to fulfill the alpha male stereotype than previous generations. In other words, yes, men can be seen nowadays as perhaps less authoritative and having greater 'soft skills'. Nevertheless, men compared to women still command more authority. Similarly, women compared to men still have greater 'soft skills'. But for me, commanding the authority of the dressing room is a necessary prerequisite of success as a manager, and for that reason there will always, or at least in the foreseeable future, be more successful men than successful women as managers of football teams.
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I think that somewhere in amongst this, we agree a bit, possibly at the core, and maybe not so around the edges.

A good, fair discussion though.

My final point on the female football manager is that today, it is more likely to be a man because of yesterday, and years of it being a man's environment, not necessarily because of male advantages.
 
thereisonlyoneno7 said:
As Fatletiss says I could quote more authoritative or physical women than most men (the aforementioned Maggie Thatcher, Fatimer Whitbread, etc). As for men not running away with emotions, come on guys how many times have you followed a part of your anatomy in making a decision
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Because Thatcher represents the typical woman doesn't she? Oh no hang on a minute, women like her are in the tiny minority.

As for making decisions ruled by your dick that tends to be decisions involving sex. I don't think you can extrapolate that to general manegerial decisions.
 
Tottonsaint said:
Who the **** is Vanessa Raynbird, i cant remember her being in charge of Saints?
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She was manager of Southampton Saints Ladies and Girls FC (or whatever it's called). Got them promoted to the National Division (back when it was the top division in the country), then kept them up the following season before being replaced by a man which I think was seriously harsh.
 
The fact half the better players disappeared to other clubs or just gave up didn't have any baring then PL? Or was it just because a man took over? Also do you know the full circumstances as to why she left? Somehow I don't think so.........
 
Beddytare said:
The fact half the better players disappeared to other clubs or just gave up didn't have any baring then PL? Or was it just because a man took over? Also do you know the full circumstances as to why she left? Somehow I don't think so.........
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Nope, but from Wikipedia it sounds like she didn't leave of her own accord and it's unlikely to have been for footballing reasons: http://www.thisishampshire.net/arch...ts_women_s_top_football_job_given_to___a_man/

From that article, it sounds like the club took the piss somewhat and it may not be, but it does sound an awful lot like she was replaced by a man because of her gender. And who's to say the better players disappearing to other clubs wasn't in response to the way the club acted towards her?

Edit: I feel need to say, my views are not born out of an anti-Saints sentiment, but I just think the principle of getting rid of decent female manager just because she's a woman (if I am correct in my assertion) is all wrong and I'd be livid if Portsmouth did something like that.
 
PompeyLapras said:
Nope, but from Wikipedia it sounds like she didn't leave of her own accord and it's unlikely to have been for footballing reasons: http://www.thisishampshire.net/arch...ts_women_s_top_football_job_given_to___a_man/

From that article, it sounds like the club took the piss somewhat and it may not be, but it does sound an awful lot like she was replaced by a man because of her gender. And who's to say the better players disappearing to other clubs wasn't in response to the way the club acted towards her?

Edit: I feel need to say, my views are not born out of an anti-Saints sentiment, but I just think the principle of getting rid of decent female manager just because she's a woman (if I am correct in my assertion) is all wrong and I'd be livid if Portsmouth did something like that.
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It's wrong to sack a women manager and replace her with a man in chick football, that obvious to anyone. Women should manage the women and men the blokes. You cant have members of the opposite sex managing and being in the dressing room. Any normal bloke would be having a butcher's at the hot ones, when they should be concentrating on the job in hand. It may also give the 10 pinters an inferiority complex. Having a member of the opposite sex around could fracture team spirit, and put off potential signings.
 
Lovelocum said:
You can't blame everything on it being 'a mans world'.
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I didn't.

What he said was correct. There are more men in football today than women, and more previously too. So thusly managers are way more likely to be male due to the infinitely wider available talent pool. I can't see an opportunity for disagreeing with that really!
 
Lord Duckhunter said:
It's wrong to sack a women manager and replace her with a man in chick football, that obvious to anyone. Women should manage the women and men the blokes. You cant have members of the opposite sex managing and being in the dressing room. Any normal bloke would be having a butcher's at the hot ones, when they should be concentrating on the job in hand. It may also give the 10 pinters an inferiority complex. Having a member of the opposite sex around could fracture team spirit, and put off potential signings.
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Back to square one.....
 
ChilcoSaint said:
I was trying to remember the last time I heard anyone in real life call women "chicks". I honestly think it must be over 20 years ago. Where's this guy been?
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Yet he gets his proverbial knickers in a twist when you don't 'respect' his opinion. It's a fight not worth signing up for I'm afraid.
 
saintgreg10 said:
Amazing that so many people have such negative stereotypes of women. I wonder if they're the same people that vote UKIP and think that muslims are the cause of all the world's problems.
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It's amazing how some sweeping generalisations are OK? Most of the people I've met round here, who chunter about muslims, vote Labour! Most UKIP voters I've spoken to, are more interested in leaving the European closed shop. (The clue is in the name).
 
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