Heung min son

[The Huddlefro]

I wouldn't say Dier's opinion is invalid Huddlefro.

I would

.

Hey wait, I’ve even paid him some compliments recently. I said I’d rather him than Keita or Jorginho any day of the week and I’ve also acknowledged his willingness to start moving the ball forward a bit more. Still nowhere near the level of what a top four/ title chasing side needs from a CM though, unfortunately, but he’s improved to the point where I’m happy to have him as part of the squad. Plus, always said he was a nice guy so that’s gotta count for something, right?

I'm just messing with you mate, but I'm glad you're seeing the light now. He's far from perfect but I genuinely think he's got so much more to give and of course, improve on as well. We probably disagree on whether he will develop into a top 4/top 6 standard player in the next few years but we won't know who's right for some time yet on that front!

You throw the nice guy bit in there but you need those characters around the squad, and of course the fact that he bleeds Spurs makes it great for us fans too. He's living the dream and he certainly has played a huge part in getting us to where we are this season on the pitch. I have no doubt we will try to recruit in his position over the summer of course, as well, we need to add quality and depth there. But I hope Winks continues to improve as well. And when you look at other CMs playing a similar role in the PL, I don't think there are a huge number above him, and certainly not many we could attract.

 

[Dier Hard]

I would

Same tbh.

I'm just messing with you mate, but I'm glad you're seeing the light now. He's far from perfect but I genuinely think he's got so much more to give and of course, improve on as well. We probably disagree on whether he will develop into a top 4/top 6 standard player in the next few years but we won't know who's right for some time yet on that front!

You throw the nice guy bit in there but you need those characters around the squad, and of course the fact that he bleeds Spurs makes it great for us fans too. He's living the dream and he certainly has played a huge part in getting us to where we are this season on the pitch. I have no doubt we will try to recruit in his position over the summer of course, as well, we need to add quality and depth there. But I hope Winks continues to improve as well. And when you look at other CMs playing a similar role in the PL, I don't think there are a huge number above him, and certainly not many we could attract.

With regards to his development, I think by now we should’ve been seeing some form of sign he’s going to be the creative spark we so desperately need. He’s 22 now with about 100+ spurs games to his name, still young but also reaching a point where you can say he’s also reasonably experienced. He’s a solid player to help retain and keep control of possession whilst he’s worked on his defensive awareness in recent weeks/ months but I still find him extremely limited on the front foot and for me, that’s what we really need.

 

[The Huddlefro]

With regards to his development, I think by now we should’ve been seeing some form of sign he’s going to be the creative spark we so desperately need. He’s 22 now with about 100+ spurs games to his name, still young but also reaching a point where you can say he’s also reasonably experienced. He’s a solid player to help retain and keep control of possession whilst he’s worked on his defensive awareness in recent weeks/ months but I still find him extremely limited on the front foot and for me, that’s what we really need.

I agree, he needs to get better moving the ball forwards. We've seen signs I believe, he's been driving forward with the ball a little bit more in the last few games, but he needs to look forward more with his passing. In fairness to him, if we start Llorente or Kane, they are more likely to provide him an option by coming short or being competitive for balls in the air than Son and Lucas are, which might be a factor. I hope that will come with time, he seems to understand the game well and has shown he can improve aspects of his own game so I'm hopeful we will see him improve that particular aspect as well.

 

[Dier Hard]

I agree, he needs to get better moving the ball forwards. We've seen signs I believe, he's been driving forward with the ball a little bit more in the last few games, but he needs to look forward more with his passing. In fairness to him, if we start Llorente or Kane, they are more likely to provide him an option by coming short or being competitive for balls in the air than Son and Lucas are, which might be a factor. I hope that will come with time, he seems to understand the game well and has shown he can improve aspects of his own game so I'm hopeful we will see him improve that particular aspect as well.

Yeah he’s moving with the ball a bit more but I feel there’s a stark contrast between how he moves it forward and how others such as the likes of Pogba, Silva, Gundogan, Brooks, Doucoure etc do, which is what I think we really need. Those guys seem to have the intent of making something happen, I don’t get that same impression with Winks, it all seems too safe with him. The best players aren’t afraid of taking those sort of forward risks as they know it’ll eventually pay off. When Modric was here, albeit a different breed to any CM we’ve had in god knows how long, he knew that his forward thinking and passing would create stuff, that’s what I want to see from our centre mid and personally I just don’t see it in Winks. No issue with the guy being part of this squad now as there’s plenty of situations his style can be very handy but I’d be disappointed if he’s still seemingly the first choice CM come the 19/20 season.

 

[The Huddlefro]

Yeah he’s moving with the ball a bit more but I feel there’s a stark contrast between how he moves it forward and how others such as the likes of Pogba, Silva, Gundogan, Brooks, Doucoure etc do, which is what I think we really need. Those guys seem to have the intent of making something happen, I don’t get that same impression with Winks, it all seems too safe with him. The best players aren’t afraid of taking those sort of forward risks as they know it’ll eventually pay off. When Modric was here, albeit a different breed to any CM we’ve had in god knows how long, he knew that his forward thinking and passing would create stuff, that’s what I want to see from our centre mid and personally I just don’t see it in Winks. No issue with the guy being part of this squad now as there’s plenty of situations his style can be very handy but I’d be disappointed if he’s still seemingly the first choice CM come the 19/20 season.

Thats fair mate. I wouldn't have seen him as first choice yet either tbh but he's stepped in admirably this season in a slightly different role, so fair play to him. I said on another thread a few days back that we have done astonishingly well to be where we are with Winks and Sissoko as our CM pairing. It's a testament to both and indeed the rest of the squad, that our current situation is what it is, but we definitely need to look for more quality in the summer (while still hopefully giving Winks the chance to improve).

 

[Blue and White]

I wouldn't be surprised if Winks is following orders. He could be so much more effective further forward but the manager is probably telling him to stay back and do his job there and leave it to the genuine attacking players to do their job.

 

[PowerSpurs]

I wouldn't be surprised if Winks is following orders. He could be so much more effective further forward but the manager is probably telling him to stay back and do his job there and leave it to the genuine attacking players to do their job.

Completely agree. Winks gives the whole side stability by controlling the deep midfield. If you compare the other top 6 sides he is playing where Fernandinho, Wijnaldum, Jorginho, Matic and Xhaka play. He is the 2nd or 3rd best in that list. I would choose Winks and Sissoko ahead of Dier and Wanyama these days.
He isn't as good as Modric and may never be but will reach his peak in four or five years and getting someone better than him or Dier will cost 75m at least.

 

[Dier Hard]

Thats fair mate. I wouldn't have seen him as first choice yet either tbh but he's stepped in admirably this season in a slightly different role, so fair play to him. I said on another thread a few days back that we have done astonishingly well to be where we are with Winks and Sissoko as our CM pairing. It's a testament to both and indeed the rest of the squad, that our current situation is what it is, but we definitely need to look for more quality in the summer (while still hopefully giving Winks the chance to improve).

He’s done what he can, and I respect that to an extent but if Spurs are wanting to reach that promised land of “next level football” then I don’t think he’s the answer (from a regular XI perspective).

 

[Dier Hard]

I wouldn't be surprised if Winks is following orders. He could be so much more effective further forward but the manager is probably telling him to stay back and do his job there and leave it to the genuine attacking players to do their job.

Can he though? What gives you the impression he can be more effective further forward? When Eriksen has dropped deeper this season he’s shown almost/ just as much creativity as he does when in the ten role. Winks doesn’t show anywhere near that level of creativity. I’m not sure what playing him any further forward would accomplish.

 

[NSIS]

N’Dombele would be good for us; but I expect we’ll be outbid, as per...

 

[Dier Hard]

Completely agree. Winks gives the whole side stability by controlling the deep midfield. If you compare the other top 6 sides he is playing where Fernandinho, Wijnaldum, Jorginho, Matic and Xhaka play. He is the 2nd or 3rd best in that list. I would choose Winks and Sissoko ahead of Dier and Wanyama these days.
He isn't as good as Modric and may never be but will reach his peak in four or five years and getting someone better than him or Dier will cost 75m at least.

Brooks cost Bournemouth £11.5m, Doucoure cost Watford £10m. Both of whom are better than Winks.

 

[PowerSpurs]

Brooks cost Bournemouth £11.5m, Doucoure cost Watford £10m. Both of whom are better than Winks.

I see Brooks as more of an Eriksen type and Doucoure more like Sissoko or Wanyama. But I've only seen the highlights of their performances whereas I've watched Winks play many full matches.

 

[PowerSpurs]

Can he though? What gives you the impression he can be more effective further forward? When Eriksen has dropped deeper this season he’s shown almost/ just as much creativity as he does when in the ten role. Winks doesn’t show anywhere near that level of creativity. I’m not sure what playing him any further forward would accomplish.

I'm not sure that is relevant. He is clearly doing his assigned role exactly as instructed. We are winning a lot of games which suggests making improvements is not easy.

 

[The Changing Man]

I genuniely cannot get my head around the concept that we are a better side without Harry Kane. I love Sonny and he has been vital in recent weeks, but he also dovetails with Harry and Dele brilliantly.

Yes its true we haven't lost in the league in Harrys absence, but how well have we played? Awful V Fulham, Awful v Newcastle, Terrible V Leicester, yes we won all 3 of both matches, but we got lucky. We generally play better when Harry plays, he links the play, he gives our attacks there focal point, Sonny is an even better player when Harry is alongside him and Lucas Moura is unrecognisable from the player who played alongside Harry at the start of the season.

Goalscorers of Harrys quality will always be first name on the team sheet. That doesn't mean he is more important than Eriksen, Son, Dele, or anyone else for that matter we need a squad and in recent weeks he have shown that we have the required depth in that squad. But you also need your best players in the team when they are available and Harry Kane is without question one of those players.

 

[Dier Hard]

I see Brooks as more of an Eriksen type and Doucoure more like Sissoko or Wanyama. But I've only seen the highlights of their performances whereas I've watched Winks play many full matches.

Brooks plays as a mix of an 8 and 10 for Bournemouth, you likely see him more of a Eriksen type because he does exactly what you’d want from a creative central midfielder. He makes things happen from deep and further forward, exactly the type that’d help us improve from a creative/ attacking aspect.

Doucoure is more like prime Dembele but has goals and assists in him. He doesn’t have the skill or awareness that Dembele had, nor is he as dominant in terms of bossing the middle of the pitch but he uses his athleticism to be a real useful box-to-box player.

 

[Dier Hard]

I'm not sure that is relevant. He is clearly doing his assigned role exactly as instructed. We are winning a lot of games which suggests making improvements is not easy.

It’s relevant because B&W believes Winks could be better/ more effective if pushed forward, in which I’ve seen no evidence of that being a possibility. He doesn’t possess the creative or attacking instincts to do so.

We’ve won a lot of games but we’ve not won enough. With improvements, we may have done so. Our lack of creativity in CM and the shoddy performances at RB have hindered us.

 

[D.G.C.]

From a mental and attitude perspective Winks is everything I want in a professional at Spurs. He’s Tottenham through and through and he’s a real gent of a guy (even if he did nearly run me over once, maybe that’s why I’ve been harsh on him! ).

But from a playing perspective I just feel Spurs need more. We’re one of the best sides in the country now and I think we need an elite midfielder to support our elite attacking mids. I’ve said before I look at CMs like Pogba, Gundogan, Silva, Doucoure and now even Brooks at Bournemouth and that’s what I want to see, someone who’s pivotal in attacks and chipping-in with some goals/ assists on a regular basis. We’re currently doing “fine” with Winks in the side but I think we could be doing so much better had we had a bit more quality in that central midfield.[/QUOTE

Would Barklay have fitted?

 

[Dier Hard]

Would Barklay have fitted?

I don’t think so. Far too inconsistent. I’d have Winks over him.

 

[Blue and White]

It’s relevant because B&W believes Winks could be better/ more effective if pushed forward, in which I’ve seen no evidence of that being a possibility. He doesn’t possess the creative or attacking instincts to do so.

We’ve won a lot of games but we’ve not won enough. With improvements, we may have done so. Our lack of creativity in CM and the shoddy performances at RB have hindered us.

My point is though, that we don't need him further forward because we have Dele, Eriksen, Lamela, all ahead of him as forward playing MD.
His job is more anchor.
I think you are comparing him with the wrong players as opposed to PS.

Players perform differently in different teams. Doucoure might not not fit into Spurs style of play. Capoue played better once he left us.

 

[Dier Hard]

My point is though, that we don't need him further forward because we have Dele, Eriksen, Lamela, all ahead of him as forward playing MD.
His job is more anchor.
I think you are comparing him with the wrong players as opposed to PS.

Players perform differently in different teams. Doucoure might not not fit into Spurs style of play. Capoue played better once he left us.

Power compared Winks with Jorginho, Xhaka, Wijnaldum, Fernandinho and Matic, those players are all different in styles. Jorginho was meant to provide the creative spark for Chelsea yet has failed to do so, no one knows (not even Arsenal fans) what it is Xhaka is meant to do, Fernandinho and Matic are two ball-winning midfielders, Wijnaldum might be the only one who's genuinely close to Winks in terms of style. The reason I compare Winks with Pogba/ Brooks/ Gundogan/ David Silva/ Doucoure etc is because that's the level and type of player we could do with, it's why I'm not a huge fan of Winks' style in this team. We have the steel and power in Dier and Sissoko but we don't have the creativity.

Most top sides have creativity from deep:

Utd - Pogba. City - Gundogan/ Silva/ KdB. Juve - Pjanic. Bayern - Thiago. Barca - Rakitic/ Arthur. Real - Modric/ Kroos. We lack that type of player and I don't think it's a coincidence most of those sides are the ones we want to emulate in terms of success. This is why I've wanted improvement at CM for two or so windows now, I really do believe Spurs can get to a level like most of those but we must improve areas like CM as well as RB to do so.