Give credit where it is due!!

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cyprussyd said:
but would you think that if we where 5th and you won the cup?
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I certainly don't blame you guys for itching to get a Europa spot through any means possible as I'd probably be the same way.

If I had to choose though, I'd rather get in with a 5th placed finish, also because that means that our PL season would have been remarkably good with plenty of wins to enjoy.

MrRAWhite said:
you are having a laugh arn't you?...Surely the proper means is by actually winning something...
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No, because I don't think the tournaments can be particularly fair. With the PL, you have over 30 games facing every team to see how you perform against other sides. The tournaments can be a bit flukey and favourable and can be decided in a single game.

Just look at Birmingham's journey in the Carling Cup:

Rochdale > MK Dons > Brentford > Aston Villa > West Ham > Arsenal

Now yeah, there were some superb results there, especially against Arsenal. However, I certainly don't think it's enough of a test to get into the second biggest football tournament in Europe (if not the world) compared to a team which has worked hard all season, facing everyone, to grab 5th.

Then you have to look at teams like Stoke who didn't even bloody win anything.

Cardiff City > Wolves > Brighton > West Ham > Bolton

And that got them Europe! It's a bit backwards. How does a tournament like that fish out the 'best of the rest' teams to represent England in the Europa League compared to something like a 5th placed finish?

In my opinion the powers that be are undermining both of the European competitions by the amount of teams that qualify...Surely the best way forward would be for only teams that actually win something qualify for the Champions league, and for me that would be the league and major cup winners from each country. The Europa League qualifiers could be the league runners up and League Cup winners, or for countries who don't have a secondary cup competition, then 3rd place in the league would qualify for the Europa..
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That could simultaneously de-value the CL and EL tournaments though. A full season of performances helps to accurately portray how good a team is (which is why the 4 teams in the CL spots atm happen to also be the 4 top teams in England).

The current setup allows the best England has to offer to head to the Champions League. The 5th spot allows the 'best of the rest' to head to Europa, and then virtually anyone is fair game for the other Europa spots, with a hell of a lot of it coming down to purely being fortunate with the draws, especially in the cases of getting into Europa by being runners-up. Removing that feature would at least increase the value of the EL slightly.
 
Howay man Chappaz, how could any Newcastle fan honestly put finishing 5th above winning the FA Cup. Bollocks. We've waited an eternity for a trophy of substance. We've had top 5 or 6 finishes numerous times. They were lovely but winning trophies must count for more.

And I agree with Commachio, its a load of ****e anyway. The very fact the CL can be won by a team who finished 4th in their league the year before is farcical. The Europa League is just a joke now, its like a mini European league as the name suggests. Its funny they're always looking at ways to reduce the games to reduce the physical demands on players, but they manage to sanction this kind of **** when the cheque is waved.

Too much of a good thing can dilute it and spoil it. Look at boxing and the numerous belts at any given weight. Eventually the effect is negative as we've seen with people defecting to MMA
 
Warm Pouch said:
Howay man Chappaz, how could any Newcastle fan honestly put finishing 5th above winning the FA Cup. Bollocks. We've waited an eternity for a trophy of substance. We've had top 5 or 6 finishes numerous times. They were lovely but winning trophies must count for more.
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You've just totally mis-read what I said (or just didn't read it full stop).

I said that I'd rather get into Europe through a 5th placed finish instead of through the FA or Carling cup. I didnt say that I'd prefer to be 5th instead of winning the cup overall. It's just a preference of how I'd rather get in.

Mind you, I'm not really a fan of the cups either. Europe qualification aside, nothing comes of it and everyone ends up forgetting when the next season starts anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to win one of those cups some day, but the buzz over it fades away pretty quickly. Just look at Liverpool. No one seems to care that they won the Carling Cup - not even Liverpool fans themselves.
 
Chappaz said:
You've just totally mis-read what I said (or just didn't read it full stop).

I said that I'd rather get into Europe through a 5th placed finish instead of through the FA or Carling cup. I didnt say that I'd prefer to be 5th instead of winning the cup overall. It's just a preference of how I'd rather get in.

Mind you, I'm not really a fan of the cups either. Europe qualification aside, nothing comes of it and everyone ends up forgetting when the next season starts anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to win one of those cups some day, but the buzz over it fades away pretty quickly. Just look at Liverpool. No one seems to care that they won the Carling Cup - not even Liverpool fans themselves.
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I agree if its a one off, or a team who wins trophies regularly (Liverpool), they can be forgotten quickly. Particularly the League Cup. But sometimes when its the start of an era in that clubs history (as it is for Sunderland this year with O'Neill), then a cup win can be massive and long remembered as the starting point. As for not reading your post, that is not the problem. The problem is you're sitting on the fence. Answer the question straight and it will clear it up. Regardless of the original question, 5th place or win the FA Cup?
 
To the OP no sod them they were lucky yet again <whistle>
To QWOP well done for yesterdays game mate murdered them in the first half iffy in the second mind and sideshow bob off as well, he long term or just a precaution?
 
Warm Pouch said:
I agree if its a one off, or a team who wins trophies regularly (Liverpool), they can be forgotten quickly. Particularly the League Cup. But sometimes when its the start of an era in that clubs history (as it is for Sunderland this year with O'Neill), then a cup win can be massive and long remembered as the starting point. As for not reading your post, that is not the problem. The problem is you're sitting on the fence. Answer the question straight and it will clear it up. Regardless of the original question, 5th place or win the FA Cup?
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Which would I rather have? FA Cup.

Which way would I rather get into Europe? 5th place.

Make sense now?
 
cyprussyd said:
I think if we are all honest we would say the most important out of the cup or league position depends a lot on the one we are in so I will say both are very worthy achievements.

Oh and 5-1, read your fellow supporters comments and see how the grown ups act, one day you may become one.
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I said nothing wrong.

Since when did disagreeing with someone make you not grown up?
 
After winning 0 for 39 years, FA CUP even the bloody league cup would do but winning it.

If we win it this season (not saying we will but if), then I would say the league way, but I think it will be a bloody long time till either is us will win the PL so just gettng a trophy 1st is the important bit, and I dont care if no one else gives a ****, we will and thats all that counts.

I am one of these that believes the CL should just be Champions, UEFA should be 2nd and maybe 3rd at a push, and bring the cup winners cup back.
 
If Bruce was in charge I'd be grateful just to have got a replay off Everton. But with MON there's real hope that we can go all the way. Everton then Liverpool then Chelsea/Spurs is a tough old schedule though...
 
Warm Pouch said:
Howay man Chappaz, how could any Newcastle fan honestly put finishing 5th above winning the FA Cup. Bollocks. We've waited an eternity for a trophy of substance. We've had top 5 or 6 finishes numerous times. They were lovely but winning trophies must count for more.

And I agree with Commachio, its a load of ****e anyway. The very fact the CL can be won by a team who finished 4th in their league the year before is farcical. The Europa League is just a joke now, its like a mini European league as the name suggests. Its funny they're always looking at ways to reduce the games to reduce the physical demands on players, but they manage to sanction this kind of **** when the cheque is waved.

Too much of a good thing can dilute it and spoil it. Look at boxing and the numerous belts at any given weight. Eventually the effect is negative as we've seen with people defecting to MMA
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Fully agree with this like. <ok>
 
I certainly give my b&w mates the credit face to face but to a bunch of inbred, ignorant twats from the dark-side on this forum (the likes of ChappedArse, 5-1 and others), who wouldn't give us the credit even if we won the FA Cup and beat Arsenal, Everton, Liverpool, Spurs or Chelsea along the way, I wouldn't give a shovel full of stale ****e too.

I hope that clarifies my position?
 
CestriaO'Neill said:
I certainly give my b&w mates the credit face to face but to a bunch of inbred, ignorant twats from the dark-side on this forum (the likes of ChappedArse, 5-1 and others), who wouldn't give us the credit even if we won the FA Cup and beat Arsenal, Everton, Liverpool, Spurs or Chelsea along the way, I wouldn't give a shovel full of stale ****e too.

I hope that clarifies my position?
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Nope..far too cryptic for me...<laugh>
 
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