Match Day Thread General matchday thread.

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Peej said:
Who would you like to see come in to replace him, honest question. No trap, he has done better than any manager since sir Bobby. So if he crashes out in group he goes. Crashes out on first KO he goes. Any further and we can at least say he deserves a pop at the WC next summer?
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Agree generally but did Sir Bobby really do that well though? Think his overall reputation and ability clouds it personally.

I mentioned it yesterday that it baffles me that the 1990 squad are seen as plucky heroes but 2018 are only seen as lucky. What's the difference?

They're both literally the same in that we had a lucky run to the semis, didn't beat anyone of note, and lost to the first decent team we faced, albeit on penalties.

1986 - Beat Poland and Paraguay

1990 - Beat Egypt in 90 mins and Belgium/Cameroon aet.


Sounds like standard England to me. I think Venables arguably did better in 1996.
 
Libby said:
Agree generally but did Sir Bobby really do that well though? Think his overall reputation and ability clouds it personally.

I mentioned it yesterday that it baffles me that the 1990 squad are seen as plucky heroes but 2018 are only seen as lucky. What's the difference?

They're both literally the same in that we had a lucky run to the semis, didn't beat anyone of note, and lost to the first decent team we faced, albeit on penalties.

1986 - Beat Poland and Paraguay

1990 - Beat Egypt in 90 mins and Belgium/Cameroon aet.


Sounds like standard England to me. I think Venables arguably did better in 1996.
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Cameroon's were a decent side they made it all the way to the QF when we beat them. Before that they beat Argentina, and Columbia who probably had a player shot when they went home.

Roger Milla <party>
 
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brb said:
Cameroon's were a decent side they made it all the way to the QF when we beat them. Before that they beat Argentina, and Columbia who probably had a player shot when they went home.

Roger Miller <party>
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Yeah decent but hardly world beaters. Colombia were a decent side in 2018 too. In fact, you could argue that any side who make the last 8 are no mugs. Except maybe South Korea which was bent as **** <laugh>

Was it that WC that the Colombian was shot or 94?
 
Libby said:
Agree with a fair bit of that but I don't think the squad is as good as some suggest. Both CB and CM is very poor compared to the top sides imo and feel it's a tournament too soon for some of the younger players.

I thought the performance was pretty decent against Croatia without being brilliant. Started at an incredible pace but couldn't feasibly keep that up in the heat and we managed it well restricting them to nothing. Like I say, not brilliant but decent enough.


I also think QF's would be a good result. We're quite clearly not one of the best four sides on the continent.
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I don't think we have to be, and it's often the case in a knockout competition including the Euros e.g. Denmark, Greece, Portugal

For me it's what the manager is getting out of them that troubles me. Why shouldn't our expectation to win it be any less than Italy? Immobile plays for Lazio, Locateli and Berardi for a club I've never heard of, Lorenzo for Napoli, Spinazola for Roma. But look at the football their manager is getting them playing. I'm not even thinking about their results, but just the way every single player is so in tune with each other, the passing and movement, the style of football the manager is bringing out of them. There's nothing to stop an England manager doing the same. The trouble is all England managers over the past 20 years have had our players playing with fear, playing within themselves and rarely to our strengths. I thought Southgate was going to be different but he's resorted to type as well.
 
Libby said:
Yeah decent but hardly world beaters. Colombia were a decent side in 2018 too. In fact, you could argue that any side who make the last 8 are no mugs. Except maybe South Korea which was bent as **** <laugh>

Was it that WC that the Colombian was shot or 94?
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94
 
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Treble said:
I don't think we have to be, and it's often the case in a knockout competition including the Euros e.g. Denmark, Greece, Portugal

For me it's what the manager is getting out of them that troubles me. Why shouldn't our expectation to win it be any less than Italy? Immobile plays for Lazio, Locateli and Berardi for a club I've never heard of, Lorenzo for Napoli, Spinazola for Roma. But look at the football their manager is getting them playing. I'm not even thinking about their results, but just the way every single player is so in tune with each other, the passing and movement, the style of football the manager is bringing out of them. There's nothing to stop and England manager doing the same. The trouble is all England managers over the past 20 years have had our players playing with fear, playing within themselves. I thought Southgate was going to be different but he's resorted to type as well.
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Agree with pretty much all of that, though the big difference between us and Italy (squad wise) is they have genuinely quality at CM and CB which are vital positions for tournament football.

Interesting point about Southgate resorting to type, I actually thought he seemed to be his own man for the first 18 months or so but has seemingly got worse and made more baffling decisions as time has gone on.

I do think in general that our problems run far deeper than simply who the 11 on the pitch and the bloke in the dugout is. Been that way pretty much the entire time I've watched England.
 
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Libby said:
Agree with pretty much all of that, though the big difference between us and Italy (squad wise) is they have genuinely quality at CM and CB which are vital positions for tournament football.

Interesting point about Southgate resorting to type, I actually thought he seemed to be his own man for the first 18 months or so but has seemingly got worse and made more baffling decisions as time has gone on.

I do think in general that our problems run far deeper than simply who the 11 on the pitch and the bloke in the dugout is. Been that way pretty much the entire time I've watched England.
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Agree as well, though I think our CM is good.

On the point about Southgate that's what I was talking about as well. Where's the attacking mindset gone from 2018? Not just that, but he was all about picking players on form rather than reputation. That's also gone by the wayside as he brings crocks like Maguire and Henderson, and someone who's been completely out of form like Sterling and persists in playing him, but Lingard is left behind.
 
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Libby said:
Agree generally but did Sir Bobby really do that well though? Think his overall reputation and ability clouds it personally.

I mentioned it yesterday that it baffles me that the 1990 squad are seen as plucky heroes but 2018 are only seen as lucky. What's the difference?

They're both literally the same in that we had a lucky run to the semis, didn't beat anyone of note, and lost to the first decent team we faced, albeit on penalties.

1986 - Beat Poland and Paraguay

1990 - Beat Egypt in 90 mins and Belgium/Cameroon aet.


Sounds like standard England to me. I think Venables arguably did better in 1996.
Click to expand...

Venables had a dour 1-1 with Switzerland. A shocking first half against Scotland and a good win against a Dutch side that were infighting.
A win after 120 minutes of boring football against Spain on Pennos and a loss after a decent go against Germany. People remember it like we played world beating football.

you managed to swerve who you could see coming in doing a better turn than Southgate
 
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Peej said:
Venables had a dour 1-1 with Switzerland. A shocking first half against Scotland and a good win against a Dutch side that were infighting.
A win after 120 minutes of boring football against Spain on Pennos and a loss after a decent go against Germany. People remember it like we played world beating football.

you managed to swerve who you could see coming in doing a better turn than Southgate
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I managed to swerve a question you asked somebody else? Well done dopey bollocks.
 
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Peej said:
Who would you like to see come in to replace him, honest question. No trap, he has done better than any manager since sir Bobby. So if he crashes out in group he goes. Crashes out on first KO he goes. Any further and we can at least say he deserves a pop at the WC next summer?
Click to expand...


Similar question gets asked on the United board about Solskjaer. As if because we don't have the answer on who to replace him, means we're stuck with him.

I don't really know is the answer. I'd rather someone who doesn't just revert back into his shell when up against quality. We've always had problems with England managers though and it's up to the FA to find the right person, not that they will.

I'd agree though, if we get to 1/4 final then we've done as well as can be reasonably expected given how many good teams there are in the tournament.

World Cup is next year of course so haven't got an immediate answer on who would turn it round so short term, guess we're stuck with Southgate!
 
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Chief said:
Similar question gets asked on the United board about Solskjaer. As if because we don't have the answer on who to replace him, means we're stuck with him.

I don't really know is the answer. I'd rather someone who doesn't just revert back into his shell when up against quality. We've always had problems with England managers though and it's up to the FA to find the right person, not that they will.

I'd agree though, if we get to 1/4 final then we've done as well as can be reasonably expected given how many good teams there are in the tournament.

World Cup is next year of course so haven't got an immediate answer on who would turn it round so short term, guess we're stuck with Southgate!
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I mentioned this before the tourno began, but England managers are usually very conservative because there is so much pressure on them from the media, so they play it safe and don't take risks. They know they will get absolutely torn apart if they do anything radical and it doesn't come off.

As a result, I think it makes for a fairly boring and predictable approach from us. I know you can't go gung ho into this comps, but I would like to see us mix it up a bit and show a bit more intent.

We'll probably get knocked out at some point anyway, but I'd like to see us go out with a fight rather than a whimper.
 
For me our problem is as a nation and general attitude to sport in general.

We do not coach our children to win and we don't coach our children to their strengths, this is rife throughout all sport in England imho.

We are always chasing the leaders, we look around the world and say what are x doing, how do we be as good as them ?
We look at footballing philosophies and copy - we never look to our strengths and play to that.

we ignored Carrick - criminal, we pushed and pushed Gerrard and Lampard together, we never just let Becks plonk a long pass on Heskey’s head

the system is flawed from the start in England imho

FA scouting process tells the scouts to look for a natural advantage - (speed, size primarily) so we look at size/speed over ability or imho crucially brain

FA coaching tells a coach how to coach, pretty much exactly, if a coach thinks out of the box they don't even pass the course, they are brainwashed from the start.

it isn't just football, once had a mate who was a cricket coach and he explained to me how if Malinga or Muralitheren (?????) had come through in England we would have coached their technique out of them. This is so typical of our attitude to sport.
Not even going to say anything about our attitude to sports day
Its utterly bonkers!!

imho we will never have the same techniques as brazillians, italians, spanish because our culture does not flow in the same way, their children just play football all day and all night because of whether, location, lifestyle

look at Wales as an example
The whole team accepts Bale and Ramsey are the best players
Then accept James is rapid so what do they do, play to those players’ strengths, couple that with a national pride and you get decent performances

winds me up lol
 
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