Match Day Thread General matchday thread.

[Libby]

For me our problem is as a nation and general attitude to sport in general.

We do not coach our children to win and we don't coach our children to their strengths, this is rife throughout all sport in England imho.

We are always chasing the leaders, we look around the world and say what are x doing, how do we be as good as them ?
We look at footballing philosophies and copy - we never look to our strengths and play to that.

we ignored Carrick - criminal, we pushed and pushed Gerrard and Lampard together, we never just let Becks plonk a long pass on Heskey’s head

the system is flawed from the start in England imho

FA scouting process tells the scouts to look for a natural advantage - (speed, size primarily) so we look at size/speed over ability or imho crucially brain

FA coaching tells a coach how to coach, pretty much exactly, if a coach thinks out of the box they don't even pass the course, they are brainwashed from the start.

it isn't just football, once had a mate who was a cricket coach and he explained to me how if Malinga or Muralitheren (?????) had come through in England we would have coached their technique out of them. This is so typical of our attitude to sport.
Not even going to say anything about our attitude to sports day
Its utterly bonkers!!

imho we will never have the same techniques as brazillians, italians, spanish because our culture does not flow in the same way, their children just play football all day and all night because of whether, location, lifestyle

look at Wales as an example
The whole team accepts Bale and Ramsey are the best players
Then accept James is rapid so what do they do, play to those players’ strengths, couple that with a national pride and you get decent performances

winds me up lol

Agree with a lot of that, particularly the bit about prioritising physical attributes over technical - the Shaun Wright Phillips effect. I quite often state my belief that Iniesta wouldn't have made it through an English academy in the mid 00's and would have been written off as too small/lightweight. Hoping it's started to change in recent years but I won't yet hold my breath.

I disagree about we don't coach children to win though. Infact I think too much emphasis being on winning is part of the problem. It means coaches are too tempted to bring on the lad who's far more physically developed and can bully others and/or outrun them with no technical skill required.

I'd go as far as saying that below certain age groups that they shouldn't keep league tables. It should be about honing skills when really young, not an obsession about winning. That can come later in life and isn't really important at that age imo.

 

[Libby]

Probably got one of the best squads in the Euros

You must log in or register to see images

 

[Spurlock]

I mentioned this before the tourno began, but England managers are usually very conservative because there is so much pressure on them from the media, so they play it safe and don't take risks. They know they will get absolutely torn apart if they do anything radical and it doesn't come off.

As a result, I think it makes for a fairly boring and predictable approach from us. I know you can't go gung ho into this comps, but I would like to see us mix it up a bit and show a bit more intent.

We'll probably get knocked out at some point anyway, but I'd like to see us go out with a fight rather than a whimper.

I think most nations who regard themselves as big shots will get lots of media pressure from within their countries. What you mean is other nations teams handle that pressure better than ours.

 

[Spurlock]

You must log in or register to see images

name me 4 better squads in Euros bro

I can’t see a better squad than England’s on paper...France, Italy? I’m struggling after that.

We have better squads than nations like Spain and Germany who both have ageing squads, the ‘superstars’ are on the way out.

cant think of any other nation in the conversation.

Portugal got a good squad but better than ours? If you break down the club achievements of our players over the last few years compared to those in other nations, we are right up there.

What else determines squad quality?

 

[Libby]

name me 4 better squads in Euros bro

I can’t see a better squad than England’s on paper...France? I’m struggling after that.

We have better squads than nations like Spain and Germany who both have ageing squads, the ‘superstars’ are on the way out.

cant think of any other nation in the conversation.

Portugal got a good squad but better than ours? If you break down the club achievements of our players over the last few years compared to those in other nations, we are right up there.

What else determines squad quality?

I'd say France, Belgium, Portugal, Italy & Germany are all better personally. Each to their own though.

I think we've got some exciting attacking players but are lacking hugely at CB & CM. I think these are vital positions and arguably the most important in the team.

I think generally speaking, you're more likely to succeed at these tournaments with a top class defence/midfield and average forwards than you are with top class forwards and average defence/midfield. No idea if history backs that up or not mind.

Not sure age matters that much. You saying you wouldn't swap our CB's for Chiellini and Bonucci cos they're old?

All opinions but I'd say thinking we have the second best squad at this competition is typical English arrogance personally.

 

[Blueman]

Well when you've all stop crying about how bad you are or how good you should or could be I'll be here to dish out hugs. I got you.

Thanks mate
I need it with some of the twats on here

 

[Spurlock]

I'd say France, Belgium, Portugal, Italy & Germany are all better personally. Each to their own though.

I think we've got some exciting attacking players but are lacking hugely at CB & CM. I think these are vital positions and arguably the most important in the team.

I think generally speaking, you're more likely to succeed at these tournaments with a top class defence/midfield and average forwards than you are with top class forwards and average defence/midfield.

Not sure age matters that much. You saying you wouldn't swap our CB's for Chiellini and Bonucci cos their old?

All opinions but I'd say thinking we have the second best squad at this competition is typical English arrogance personally.

Yeah I would swap individuals but as a squad we are one of the top squads. Our defence bar a few are from clubs that win(buy) trophies. At club level conversations, the term ‘winners’ gets bandied about to determine those good enough from those that aren’t. Most of the squad come from winning clubs. When countries win tournaments, they don’t win because they have the best in every position. It’s to do with game management, it’s to do with the main men showing up when it matters and it’s to do with a manager who is savvy enough to navigate a team through 10 games or so.

For me it’s minerals, that’s what will cost us, not squad depth. Look at Belgium...got it all but they got Martinez navigating the ship and they’ve achieved **** all as a result.

 

[Blueman]

name me 4 better squads in Euros bro

I can’t see a better squad than England’s on paper...France, Italy? I’m struggling after that.

We have better squads than nations like Spain and Germany who both have ageing squads, the ‘superstars’ are on the way out.

cant think of any other nation in the conversation.

Portugal got a good squad but better than ours? If you break down the club achievements of our players over the last few years compared to those in other nations, we are right up there.

What else determines squad quality?

I agreed with all this which makes me think we're in with a shout. But I'm not the type who sits there hoping we go out so I can moan and whine about it
I don't include you in that btw.

 

[Peej]

I managed to swerve a question you asked somebody else? Well done dopey bollocks.

**** knows, loads were moaning and not offering up a solution. Sven, Keegan, Fabio, McClaren and loads of others all had great sides, just didn’t get the group together. Maybe we are just not that good

 

[PINKIE]

I think most nations who regard themselves as big shots will get lots of media pressure from within their countries. What you mean is other nations teams handle that pressure better than ours.

Our press is notorious for building people up to knock them down again, players and managers alike. Look at the abuse Beckham got after that red card against Argentina.

But yeah, it applies in other countries too. I just think our lot are so conscious of the criticism they will get if they don’t achieve a certain expectation, that they play within themselves and never really have a proper go.

 

[Peej]

Similar question gets asked on the United board about Solskjaer. As if because we don't have the answer on who to replace him, means we're stuck with him.

I don't really know is the answer. I'd rather someone who doesn't just revert back into his shell when up against quality. We've always had problems with England managers though and it's up to the FA to find the right person, not that they will.

I'd agree though, if we get to 1/4 final then we've done as well as can be reasonably expected given how many good teams there are in the tournament.

World Cup is next year of course so haven't got an immediate answer on who would turn it round so short term, guess we're stuck with Southgate!

Look at who we have had since sir Bobby. Loads of experience, attacking managers and dour ones.
Loads of talent, Southgate the only one to make a WC SF? Not his biggest fan, but qualification and tournament football are very different animals.

 

[Spurlock]

I agreed with all this which makes me think we're in with a shout. But I'm not the type who sits there hoping we go out so I can moan and whine about it
I don't include you in that btw.

Would love to see England win a major trophy

but we don’t seem like we are a smooth flowing machine, most winners of tournaments have a few blips, no eventual winner steamrolls past everyone however my niggling doubt is when we come up against a team on par with us.

As you know I support Spurs so trust me when I say that even though the squad looks great, there’s something in the air that suggests when it comes to crunch time we will fold(unfortunately).

When was the last time we took on a major footballing nation at the height of their powers and we beat them?

 

[Spurlock]

Our press is notorious for building people up to knock them down again, players and managers alike. Look at the abuse Beckham got after that red card against Argentina.

But yeah, it applies in other countries too. I just think our lot are so conscious of the criticism they will get if they don’t achieve a certain expectation, that they play within themselves and never really have a proper go.

England needs a bastard like Jose Mourinho(example) to get the best out of the squad for 10 games, create some siege mentality and go for it that way.

I just don’t see how GS is inspirational…comes across as the type to keep the big names happy and seems like his teams play with ‘fear’ in the do or dies.

 

[Libby]

Would love to see England win a major trophy

but we don’t seem like we are a smooth flowing machine, most winners of tournaments have a few blips, no eventual winner steamrolls past everyone however my niggling doubt is when we come up against a team on par with us.

As you know I support Spurs so trust me when I say that even though the squad looks great, there’s something in the air that suggests when it comes to crunch time we will fold(unfortunately).

When was the last time we took on a major footballing nation at the height of their powers and we beat them?

I was trying to work out the other day if we've beaten any top side in a ko game since 66? I don't include Spain on penalties and I don't think we have.

I think that's a huge part of the mentality thing you talk about and is a reason why the likes of Germany always do so well. Look at this Saturday, they lost their first game and then go a goal down in their second putting a huge amount of pressure on. How did they respond? By running ****ing riot cos they have faith in their ability and know what's required.

This is why it baffles me that people want to try and avoid difficult games. Why? We won't ever achieve anything until we get that monkey off our back.

 

[PINKIE]

England needs a bastard like Jose Mourinho(example) to get the best out of the squad for 10 games, create some siege mentality and go for it that way.

I just don’t see how GS is inspirational…comes across as the type to keep the big names happy and seems like his teams play with ‘fear’ in the do or dies.

Yeah like you say, it comes down to minerals. You can have quality in your squad, but it won't count for much unless you have the belief to go with it. On the flip side look at Greece in 2004, a team full of average players, yet their mentality saw them win the comp.

I don't care if England don't win it, I just want to see us have a go. I'm bored of seeing us limp through comps and then go out with a whimper as soon as we come up against decent oppo.

 

[luvgonzo]

Can't wait for meltdown when you go out, genuine excitement.

 

[Libby]

Our press is notorious for building people up to knock them down again, players and managers alike. Look at the abuse Beckham got after that red card against Argentina.

But yeah, it applies in other countries too. I just think our lot are so conscious of the criticism they will get if they don’t achieve a certain expectation, that they play within themselves and never really have a proper go.

Yep. Foden is one missed sitter v Germany away from turning from future Ballon D'or winner to worst Englishman since Ian Huntley in the eyes of the press.

Sure it's similar in other countries but couldn't say whether it's as bad or not. One thing I would be interested to know is if there's as much club v country politics in other nations. Must be hard to build a settled team when you've the likes of Klopp/Fergie telling you who you can play and for how long.

 

[PINKIE]

Can't wait for meltdown when you go out, genuine excitement.

^^^ @Saff dock this **** 200 points for any future prediction league that he enters.

 

[Libby]

Can't wait for meltdown when you go out, genuine excitement.

@brb can we lock this **** on the basketball board til August please?

Thanks

 

[PINKIE]

Yep. Foden is one missed sitter v Germany away from turning from future Ballon D'or winner to worst Englishman since Ian Huntley in the eyes of the press.

Sure it's similar in other countries but couldn't say whether it's as bad or not. One thing I would be interested to know is if there's as much club v country politics in other nations. Must be hard to build a settled team when you've the likes of Klopp/Fergie telling you who you can play and for how long.

I think the Spanish press are as bad as ours. Plus they have ultra influential chairmen at Real and Barca who can dictate who plays for the national squad. That said, they've had the quality over the years to see them through, so they don't get as rough a ride as our lot.

But yeah, as much as players (and managers) need to try and stay immune from the criticism, it must have an influence on them. Knowing that if you make a mistake, then your name is going to be dragged through the mud and you're gonna get slated for the next 6 months.