Off Topic General Election Special

[Noggin The Nog]

You could be right. The polls suggest that. We will see.

I vaguely recall 1972 or 73, when Heath beat Wilson in a major surprise. The polls had Wilson ahead by some margin, but he lost. Also polls before the US election had Clinton beating Trump, so while I'd fall off my seat and eat my hat if Corbyn pulled it off, it ain't over until the Fat Lady gargles with TCP.

 

[Leon...]

No it isn't. You could be talking about 'relative poverty' which is actually measuring inequality, which is different.

We have a very unequal society but that is not the same as saying 4 million kids, a third of all children in the UK, live in poverty. That would be nonsense.

Edit - this is why people don't believe what the left media say about anything, because the spout ****e like a 3rd of all kids live in poverty which is plainly not true.

Sounds totally grim for such a wealthy country, however you label it. I'd call it poverty, or being unacceptably poor:

Loads of sources could have been used, but here's one:

"A couple with two children living in poverty has less than £58 per day – that’s £15 each - after housing costs to pay for food, bills, childcare, transport, household items, clothes and other expenses like school trips or children’s activities.

The same family on average income in the UK has about £96 per day – that’s £24 each - to cover these things."

https://www.childrenssociety.org.uk/what-we-do/our-work/ending-child-poverty/what-is-child-poverty

 

[Leon...]

I've always said it, but Nigel Farage doesn't want Brexit to happen. Because if we did get Brexit he'll become irrelevant.

He's already founded a new party/venture (say that because technically the Brexit Party is a company).

The Reform Party.

 

[Leon...]

I vaguely recall 1972 or 73, when Heath beat Wilson in a major surprise. The polls had Wilson ahead by some margin, but he lost. Also polls before the US election had Clinton beating Trump, so while I'd fall off my seat and eat my hat if Corbyn pulled it off, it ain't over until the Fat Lady gargles with TCP.

This is true. **** weather tmw too, how will that play out?

 

[originalminority]

There is a risk of a remain coalition taking power. If this happened what is the longer term future of remaining in the EU forever?
Uncontrolled free movement, ever closer federation, increased contributions, further expansion to the east and Turkey, pressure to join the Euro?

 

[DMD]

Sounds totally grim for such a wealthy country, however you label it. I'd call it poverty, or being unacceptably poor:

Loads of sources could have been used, but here's one:

"A couple with two children living in poverty has less than £58 per day – that’s £15 each - after housing costs to pay for food, bills, childcare, transport, household items, clothes and other expenses like school trips or children’s activities.

The same family on average income in the UK has about £96 per day – that’s £24 each - to cover these things."

https://www.childrenssociety.org.uk/what-we-do/our-work/ending-child-poverty/what-is-child-poverty

£58 a day is not that far under the average UK salary, and well above the global average income.

 

[Leon...]

There is a risk of a remain coalition taking power. If this happened what is the longer term future of remaining in the EU forever?
Uncontrolled free movement, ever closer federation, increased contributions, further expansion to the east and Turkey, pressure to join the Euro?

I think Turkey have no chance of joining.

If we stayed in now, we could resist Schengen and the Euro.

 

[Noggin The Nog]

This is true. **** weather tmw too, how will that play out?

Who knows...Might effect all parties. Say Labour supporters in Hull assume they'll win so don't bother turning out and get stung by Brexit party. Or the same in other areas, with the Tories staying at home and losing some seats to the Libs.

Me I 've got no excuse. The Polling station is all of three minutes stagger away.
Enjoy the day. Whatever happens get out on Friday for a celebration stout or a drown your sorrows lager.

 

[Plum]

What does 4 million kids in poverty mean? What is poverty?

This.

You must log in or register to see images

 

[Leon...]

£58 a day is not that far under the average UK salary, and well above the global average income.

Using that source which compares the two, there's a big difference. It sounds pretty hard living to me (I've lived with absolutely **** all before as a single person) and doing it day in day out, with all of the other pressures, sounds horrible.

Global average has no relevance here, unless I'm missing something in the way the poor spend their money.

 

[originallambrettaman]

No it isn't. You could be talking about 'relative poverty' which is actually measuring inequality, which is different.

We have a very unequal society but that is not the same as saying 4 million kids, a third of all children in the UK, live in poverty. That would be nonsense.

Edit - this is why people don't believe what the left media say about anything, because the spout ****e like a 3rd of all kids live in poverty which is plainly not true.

It's the same with the 320,000 homeless figure, I've seen so many people on Facebook ranting about us having 320,000 people living on the streets ffs.

 

[Amin Arrears]

Well **** me, apparently I live in poverty, despite owning my own house, having a 4 year old car from new, and having enough spare cash to pursue my own interests at my own leisure, empty credit cards, an overdraft that’s never been touched, holidays, always a fridge full of food (unless I’ve been lazy, in which case a bin full of takeaway packaging).

Edit: actually I’ve miscalculated this. I have only one children.

Edit 2: actually, I’ve just seen that it’s £14 per person per day after housing costs, food, bills, clothing costs and pretty much everything. I am impoverished.

 

[Leon...]

It's the same with the 320,000 homeless figure, I've seen so many people on Facebook ranting about us having 320,000 people living on the streets ffs.

Well that is stupid as homelessness means a lot of different circumstances. Very unpleasant circumstances mind.

 

[Amin Arrears]

Blubber

 

[DMD]

Using that source which compares the two, there's a big difference. It sounds pretty hard living to me (I've lived with absolutely **** all before as a single person) and doing it day in day out, with all of the other pressures, sounds horrible.

Global average has no relevance here, unless I'm missing something in the way the poor spend their money.

The global figure has every relevance.

The general claim of 'poverty' tends to relate to a percentile, showing those below a certain amount. That simply shows who has less than others in the group, and will always have a good number, as being a percentile, it will always exist.

I'm pointing out that those that have less than others in this Country, still have plenty more than most of the world.

 

[Leon...]

The global figure has every relevance.

The general claim of 'poverty' tends to relate to a percentile, showing those below a certain amount. That simply shows who has less than others in the group, and will always have a good number, as being a percentile, it will always exist.

I'm pointing out that those that have less than others in this Country, still have plenty more than most of the world.

I take your point.

But my point is that even if someone in poverty in this country has access to a basic amenity that a person in poverty abroad did not, it does not soften the poverty the person in this country will experience.

Been a good thread this so far. Back later comrades.

 

[Mr Hatem]

The global figure has every relevance.

The general claim of 'poverty' tends to relate to a percentile, showing those below a certain amount. That simply shows who has less than others in the group, and will always have a good number, as being a percentile, it will always exist.

I'm pointing out that those that have less than others in this Country, still have plenty more than most of the world.

I have spent a lot of time living in "Third World" countries.
When people in this country talk about being poor, they cite things about living on benefits, not being able to pay your electricity bill and getting the power cut off. I say in most countries I have lived poor people don't have electricity in the first place and there are no state benefits.

 

[DMD]

I take your point.

But my point is that even if someone in poverty in this country has access to a basic amenity that a person in poverty abroad did not, it does not soften the poverty the person in this country will experience.

Been a good thread this so far. Back later comrades.

Having less income than others does not always equate to being in poverty. It's a poor measure.

 

[DMD]

I have spent a lot of time living in "Third World" countries.
When people in this country talk about being poor, they cite things about living on benefits, not being able to pay your electricity bill and getting the power cut off. I say in most countries I have lived poor people don't have electricity in the first place and there are no state benefits.

There are plenty scratching a living, foraging for waste plastic for example. It is their only income. The moves to clean up that waste stream, as much as it is needed, will see these people starve.

For the sake of clarity, I'm not advocating not clearing the waste, I'm highlighting the precarious position many in the world are in, and how our well meaning actions need to have their plight in mind.

 

[Mr Hatem]

There are plenty scratching a living, foraging for waste plastic for example. It is their only income. The moves to clean up that waste stream, as much as it is needed, will see these people starve.

In Colombia there were no wheelie bins, you put your rubbish in the street outside your house in plastic carrier bags and it was gone within minutes.