Off Topic General Election Special

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PLT said:
Obviously I don't see it as a risk. I think the policies are excellent and absolutely achievable as demonstrated in their manifesto. The tory media want you to think it's radical but it's just stuff that countries with a better standard of living do already.

The thing I really don't get is that the Cons haven't even suggested an alternative vision. Presumably it's just more of the same? Cuts, poverty, and privatisation of everything. No one seems to admit to wanting that, and the Tories aren't suggesting anything different, so why does anyone support them?
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It's called paying off the debt and don't repeat the same mistakes of the seventies - unfortunately the young who are his main target don't remember the 70s and don't care about the debt as long as they get a free education - it's funny how the left talk about the greed of the rich but the Labour manifesto is fueled by the greed of the young
 
charon-the-ferryman said:
It's called paying off the debt and don't repeat the same mistakes of the seventies - unfortunately the young who are his main target don't remember the 70s and don't care about the debt as long as they get a free education - it's funny how the left talk about the greed of the rich but the Labour manifesto is fueled by the greed of the young
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I actually don't agree with free university education.
 
charon-the-ferryman said:
It's called paying off the debt and don't repeat the same mistakes of the seventies - unfortunately the young who are his main target don't remember the 70s and don't care about the debt as long as they get a free education - it's funny how the left talk about the greed of the rich but the Labour manifesto is fueled by the greed of the young
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If paying off the debt was that important, we wouldn't be frittering money away in the back pockets of tory friends and media buddies. The desperate shortage of money is entirely selective. When it's trident or whatever there's plenty to spend and billions is just pocket change. When it comes to spending it on the country yeah no there's no money left sorry.
 
PLT said:
Obviously I don't see it as a risk. I think the policies are excellent and absolutely achievable as demonstrated in their manifesto. The tory media want you to think it's radical but it's just stuff that countries with a better standard of living do already.

The thing I really don't get is that the Cons haven't even suggested an alternative vision. Presumably it's just more of the same? Cuts, poverty, and privatisation of everything. No one seems to admit to wanting that, and the Tories aren't suggesting anything different, so why does anyone support them?
Click to expand...

Despite clear evidence their manifesto is not achievable without massive debt, which you don't care about, you've swallowed the entire thing hook line and sinker.

It's also not a new Labour thing either as has been pointed out, and unfortunately it's been proven that it doesn't work.

You're taking the same stance you railed against from supporters of the Allams.

Gambling with the future of the country on trying something different seems ok, while gambling with a football club, not so much.

That's why I find it fascinating.
 
Bum_Chinned_Crab said:
I actually don't agree with free university education.
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I don't think it particularly needs to be free, but the universities take the piss with their tuition fees that barely cover anything because they then start adding on mandatory 'campus fees' to cover stuff like Wi-Fi. Oh yeah cause £10k a year just won't cover that will it. It needs regulating really, but then it used to be didn't it until some bright sparked decided they should be able to charge what they want.

And more disgustingly, the Tories have ****ed over loads of students by retrospectively changing the terms of their loans. Somehow this is legal. The post 2012 starters are going to be loads worse off in terms of how much they pay back and how soon because of that.
 
Happy Tiger said:
Despite clear evidence their manifesto is not achievable without massive debt, which you don't care about, you've swallowed the entire thing hook line and sinker.

It's also not a new Labour thing either as has been pointed out, and unfortunately it's been proven that it doesn't work.

You're taking the same stance you railed against from supporters of the Allams.

Gambling with the future of the country on trying something different seems ok, while gambling with a football club, not so much.

That's why I find it fascinating.
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Your desperation to compare it to the Allams situation is a bit embarrassing. There's absolutely no similarity between Allam and the Labour campaign.
 
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PLT said:
If paying off the debt was that important, we wouldn't be frittering money away in the back pockets of tory friends and media buddies. The desperate shortage of money is entirely selective. When it's trident or whatever there's plenty to spend and billions is just pocket change. When it comes to spending it on the country yeah no there's no money left sorry.
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If the country was a household, it would be in six month mortgage arrears and maxed out on six credit cards.

What Labour is proposing, is to apply for three more cards.
 
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All this fuss about economics, yet they won't matter a jot if those that survive being choked by fumes will be under water.
 
PLT said:
I don't think it particularly needs to be free, but the universities take the piss with their tuition fees that barely cover anything because they then start adding on mandatory 'campus fees' to cover stuff like Wi-Fi. Oh yeah cause £10k a year just won't cover that will it. It needs regulating really, but then it used to be didn't it until some bright sparked decided they should be able to charge what they want.

And more disgustingly, the Tories have ****ed over loads of students by retrospectively changing the terms of their loans. Somehow this is legal. The post 2012 starters are going to be loads worse off in terms of how much they pay back and how soon because of that.
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Slight tangent here, but when my middle daughter went to Uni for her nursing degree, first year is spent in provided accommodation on campus. Small room, shared kitchen, shared toilet facilities.

The costs of that were frankly a piss take. The University's must make an absolute fortune out of that. Yet there's never any complaints or protests about it, it's just accepted.

I never understood that bearing in mind that Universities are generally thought of to be liberal/left wing leaning institutions.
 
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originallambrettaman said:
If the country was a household, it would be in six month mortgage arrears and maxed out on six credit cards.

What Labour is proposing, is to apply for three more cards.
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No it's to spend the money differently. The savings can be made it's just the Tory cronies don't like where they'd come from.
 
Happy Tiger said:
Slight tangent here, but when my middle daughter went to Uni for her nursing degree, first year is spent in provided accommodation on campus. Small room, shared kitchen, shared toilet facilities.

The costs of that were frankly a piss take. The University's must make an absolute fortune out of that. Yet there's never any complaints or protests about it, it's just accepted.

I never understood that bearing in mind that Universities are generally thought of to be liberal/left wing leaning institutions.
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Yeah and then they go into shared houses usually for the second year and still get ripped off because every individual pays a good amount just for their room. In total the landlords must make loads more than they would just renting the house out privately.
 
PLT said:
No it's to spend the money differently. The savings can be made it's just the Tory cronies don't like where they'd come from.
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It's **** all to do with Tory cronies, many of us can just see that the numbers don't add up and the manifesto claims on what can be raised are complete bollocks.
 
PLT said:
Yeah and then they go into shared houses usually for the second year and still get ripped off because every individual pays a good amount just for their room. In total the landlords must make loads more than they would just renting the house out privately.
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Yeah, that too to be honest.

Luckily the Uni she went to (Hertfordshire) managed to completely **** her grants up, told her she wasn't entitled to any (she was), so she sacked them off, came back home, then did it at a local Uni while paying me bugger all, thus graduated with no debt.

6 months after she quite Herts, and started at a Cambridge one, she got money paid into her bank that she'd been told she wasn't entitled to. Talking to them about it, they just went "oh yeah, our bad, you were entitled".

She'd spent 3 months worth of accommodation fees, which with my excellent ability to complain, she got back.
 
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