General Election 4th July ...

[Smug in Boots]

That isn't in doubt, what's interesting is the death of the Tories because it looks like it might be over for them, like the Whigs of the past, relegated to something quaint and interesting to read about on wikipedia. What comes in their place though, is what I'm interested in. I do wonder if some of the moderate lefties will lament the Tory death in a decades time.

It's like the 'final showdown in the title race' when Sky were desperately trying to make it interesting when everyone knew Man City had won.

I agree with your point about the death of the Tories and I don't think it's necessarily a good thing.

One of the defences, of this shambolic administration, is that the opposition was poor ...

... who knows what kind of opposition this lot will manage.

I suspect most of the next two years will be infighting and recriminations.

 

[alcoauth]

It's like the 'final showdown in the title race' when Sky were desperately trying to make it interesting when everyone knew Man City had won.

I agree with your point about the death of the Tories and I don't think it's necessarily a good thing.

One of the defences, of this shambolic administration, is that the opposition was poor ...

... who knows what kind of opposition this lot will manage.

I suspect most of the next two years will be infighting and recriminations.

I still think that's true mind, it's just that the Tories were given a mandate by the red wall to sort the country and they weren't able to (or unwilling to), at this point the hatred for the Tories surpasses any interest in how weak or inept Labour have been, It's about punishment, we must punish the Tories.

The Tories are finished, but again, careful what you wish for because the next right wing iteration will be working class, more working class than Labour and that creates an interesting dialectic.

 

[rooch 3]

It's like the 'final showdown in the title race' when Sky were desperately trying to make it interesting when everyone knew Man City had won.

I agree with your point about the death of the Tories and I don't think it's necessarily a good thing.

One of the defences, of this shambolic administration, is that the opposition was poor ...

... who knows what kind of opposition this lot will manage.

I suspect most of the next two years will be infighting and recriminations.

Don’t forget it wasn’t long ago the Tories slaughtered Labour to the point no one ever thought they would be seen again. You just have to be patient and wait for Labour to totally f uck it up like the Tories have. S hite the lot of them. I will go for a Labour/Lib Dem coalition.

 

[Neil]

We need proportional representation.

 

[alcoauth]

We need proportional representation.

I'm not disagreeing but why would that be better, in your opinion?

 

[Grizzled Wanderer]

I'm not disagreeing but why would that be better, in your opinion?

We need a coalition of centre parties without their extremist left or right elements. PR would probably do that as they'd likely split. Parties like Reform and the Greens would come into that mix as well.

 

[alcoauth]

We need a coalition of centre parties without their extremist left or right elements. PR would probably do that as they'd likely split. Parties like Reform and the Greens would come into that mix as well.

I guess the reason I'd be against this, in the way you have framed it here, is that it forces a sort of centrist window over who can hold power, it's politically stagnating, new ideas, often unpopular at first, come from the fringes.

 

[Grizzled Wanderer]

I guess the reason I'd be against this, in the way you have framed it here, is that it forces a sort of centrist window over who can hold power, it's politically stagnating, new ideas, often unpopular at first, come from the fringes.

I'd agree under normal circumstances, where people aren't mental.

 

[alcoauth]

I'd agree under normal circumstances, where people aren't mental.

I feel you on that.

That said, I'd argue the status quo is so bonkers we need something "extreme"(in the sense of very different) in order to get back to some normalcy.

 

[TopCat.]

Found out today a work colleague of mine is a Tory. So weird as he appears educated and a decent bloke...

 

[rooch 3]

Found out today a work colleague of mine is a Tory. So weird as he appears educated and a decent bloke...

Is he the only one now?

 

[TopCat.]

Is he the only one now?

Hope so

 

[Neil]

I'm not disagreeing but why would that be better, in your opinion?

For one thing, it would make my vote actually count for something. I've annoyingly nearly alwas lived in places where it's a massively safe seat for the party that I wouldn't vote for, most notably Sedgefield with Blair (at a time when I'd have been more likely to vote Liberal or Tory), and Bromsgrove formerly with Sajid Javed (when I've voted anything but Tory).

There are loads of arguments both for and against PR (and I do accept many of the arguments against), but I think overall it's just a fairer system.

See some of the points here

https://makevotesmatter.org.uk/proportional-representation/

 

[DH4]

"Democracy is the worst form of government... Except for all the others that have been tried" - Winston Churchill

 

[Robertson]

We need proportional representation.

Agreed, but proper proportional representation rather than the mish mash that the Lib Dems suggested. Something where every vote counts and the minority party that gets 6% of the votes earns a similar number of seats. Then people can vote for who they really want rather than the least worst option.

 

[Robertson]

"Democracy is the worst form of government... Except for all the others that have been tried" - Winston Churchill

Something my dad said, sticks in my mind. Democracy isn't the best form of government but no one has found anything better. Quite similar!

 

[DH4]

Something my dad said, sticks in my mind. Democracy isn't the best form of government but no one has found anything better. Quite similar!

He was paraphrasing Churchill as that is exactly what it means.

 

[Neil]

Agreed, but proper proportional representation rather than the mish mash that the Lib Dems suggested. Something where every vote counts and the minority party that gets 6% of the votes earns a similar number of seats. Then people can vote for who they really want rather than the least worst option.

They effectively rigged the vote with that. They offered FPTP vs AV, when AV is the worst form of PR possible, and then when people turn down AV, they spin it as "we asked, and people don't want PR".

 

[Grizzled Wanderer]

Found out today a work colleague of mine is a Tory. So weird as he appears educated and a decent bloke...

He probably is, in that case.

Most normal people don't let their politics rule their lives or behaviour.

If you can't have a pint and a civil conversation about politics with someone who's not got the same views as you, then you're not normal, in my opinion.

 

[Gil T Azell]

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