Gaston

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I like Davis as a squad player but no more than that. He lacks the physicality and positional awareness to be CDM and his utter hopelessness in front of goal means he cant be used as an attacking player either.

I dont want to slag him off as i think he works his heart out for the team but he just doesnt have any specific ability that he can add. I.e. We have better CDM than him in Morgan (or presumably Clasie), Vic and Harrison, and his inability to convert very simple chances or stack up assists means he's a liability in attack.

So again. I think he's a useful squad player, but shouldnt be in the first eleven at this point.
 
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White Jaidi said:
All I'm saying is Gaston is better suited to scoring goals/creating chances than Davis, if he can get form although Davis is the better all-round player, and I'd like to think Juanmi will be the next level up in terms of creating chances.
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Agreed. I need say no more :) but I probably will
 
Tintin said:
Ward-Prowse got six assists in 16 starts. Davis got two in 32. So the answer to your question is yes. Especially as Davis can play DM and Ward-Prowse can't.
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You playing nicely now?

Steven Davis' link up play from midfield to attack is excellent. Look back at the previous two seasons too. Look at how many times he assisted the assist. You may not like him, but he is a good player who has contributed a lot. My earlier point still stands: he would be clearly of more value if he could score, but that doesn't mean he can't play in that hole doing the link up job.

Edit: just for the record (as I genuinely don't know), how many assists did JWP get from set-pieces?
 
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fatletiss said:
You playing nicely now?

Steven Davis' link up play from midfield to attack is excellent. Look back at the previous two seasons too. Look at how many times he assisted the assist. You may not like him, but he is a good player who has contributed a lot. My earlier point still stands: he would be clearly of more value if he could score, but that doesn't mean he can't play in that hole doing the link up job.

Edit: just for the record (as I genuinely don't know), how many assists did JWP get from set-pieces?
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The Official Premier Leagues site actually has Ward-Prowse on eight assists and Davis on two for last season. Davis was on the pitch for 1200 minutes, 20 hours longer in total. But Davis did play games at DM. I don't know how many have come from set pieces. You work it out if you want. I hope you realise that you aren't going to get away with deducting assists from set-pieces when comparing the two. That's like deducting goals from players for scoring off set-pieces.

You asked why I put Ward-Prowse as an attacker and not Davis. I told you why. Ward-Prowse is certainly above Davis in the pecking order at AM. The stats are already massively in Ward-Prowse's favour, then you can factor in that Ward-Prowse is 20 and improving. Davis is 30 and has hit a plateau. Ward-Prowse has great passing completion too, better than Davis. Then there's his set pieces. It's bordering on ridiculous to prefer Davis to Ward-Prowse at AM.
 
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My take:

Davis is the better all-around player if you want a bit of defending but mostly ball-control and midfield generalship. He's just not really cut out to be a formal "attacking midfielder," he's more of a old-fashioned 4-4-2 central midfielder who would take on a slightly more attacking role than his central midfield partner. I like FLT's description of him as the guy who gets the assist to the assist. There's nothing really wrong with Davis; he was a little bit bad towards the end of last year but in general he's a solid player but who might not fit our tactic.

JWP is a better on the attack, but his tackling and defense right now are too suspect to play him. And he wasn't getting the goals, though I think that will change if given a chance. Still, he doesn't have what FM might deem "flair" or "creativity" if that is what you want in an attacking mid. I feel like he would be best off working on his defense and possession skills and morphing into more of a Davis-like player as opposed to an attacking mid. But is there a role for that on our team? He'd run into the same issues as Davis has.

Gaston is like a better version of the current JWP-- also notsogreat on defense (though he does try, contrary to some opinions) but a good passer with good vision and can score. But he's also never healthy.

Juanmi is potentially a better player and better fit than any of them as from what I have read he apparently works hard on defending and presses very well. He can score a bit, and he can pass and dribble and seems more mobile than either JWP or GAston. Key word being "POTENTIALLY" though. We really have no idea.

We do not have that killer guy on attack unless maybe Mane continues to improve. But we have plenty of depth with Tadic, Long, Rodriguez, and Juanmi all capable of playing on the wing. Pelle, Long, Rodriguez, Mane, and maybe Juanmi all capable of playing up top. And Juanmi, Tadic, Davis, and JWP all able to play in the #10 spot. Plus Gallagher or maybe Seager potentially joining the first team.
 
Tintin said:
The Official Premier Leagues site actually has Ward-Prowse on eight assists and Davis on two for last season. Davis was on the pitch for 1200 minutes, 20 hours longer in total. But Davis did play games at DM. I don't know how many have come from set pieces. You work it out if you want. I hope you realise that you aren't going to get away with deducting assists from set-pieces when comparing the two. That's like deducting goals from players for scoring off set-pieces.
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Ok Tintin, let's go back to my statement that you originally twisted. I am doing this because I am not the one comparing JWP to Davis; I got dragged into that.

I said that Davis has played excellently as the attacking midfielder with great link up play and just because he hasn't scored goals, it doesn't mean he played badly there. I then used mark Hughes as an example of someone who played really well and didn't score a lot of goals.

You then told me I was saying I expected only a striker to score in a 4-2-3-1 formation, which I clearly hadn't said. I don't know what you were looking to say, or just looking for a squabble.

I'm not going anymore on this now. I rate Steve Davis and think he has very good link up play. I think he's been important to Saints over the last three seasons and had a few poor games in the second half of the season.

That's it. I was talking about the value of Steve Davis.
 
Agree with a lot of the above.
Davis has his attacking limitations and is also not great defensively when on the back foot, but has everything else you would want in a central midfielder. It's just that when you play with two other midfielders who are limited going forwards then it enthasises Davis's attacking failings.

When we've tried to play better attacking options in the advanced midfield role. Tadic, Djuricic or Gaston in previous seasons we've looked far more vulnerable defensively.
Hopefully in Juanmi we have the player with the balance of attack/defence for the job
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
My take:

Davis is the better all-around player if you want a bit of defending but mostly ball-control and midfield generalship. He's just not really cut out to be a formal "attacking midfielder," he's more of a old-fashioned 4-4-2 central midfielder who would take on a slightly more attacking role than his central midfield partner. I like FLT's description of him as the guy who gets the assist to the assist. There's nothing really wrong with Davis; he was a little bit bad towards the end of last year but in general he's a solid player but who might not fit our tactic.

JWP is a better on the attack, but his tackling and defense right now are too suspect to play him. And he wasn't getting the goals, though I think that will change if given a chance. Still, he doesn't have what FM might deem "flair" or "creativity" if that is what you want in an attacking mid. I feel like he would be best off working on his defense and possession skills and morphing into more of a Davis-like player as opposed to an attacking mid. But is there a role for that on our team? He'd run into the same issues as Davis has.

Gaston is like a better version of the current JWP-- also notsogreat on defense (though he does try, contrary to some opinions) but a good passer with good vision and can score. But he's also never healthy.

Juanmi is potentially a better player and better fit than any of them as from what I have read he apparently works hard on defending and presses very well. He can score a bit, and he can pass and dribble and seems more mobile than either JWP or GAston. Key word being "POTENTIALLY" though. We really have no idea.

We do not have that killer guy on attack unless maybe Mane continues to improve. But we have plenty of depth with Tadic, Long, Rodriguez, and Juanmi all capable of playing on the wing. Pelle, Long, Rodriguez, Mane, and maybe Juanmi all capable of playing up top. And Juanmi, Tadic, Davis, and JWP all able to play in the #10 spot. Plus Gallagher or maybe Seager potentially joining the first team.
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All good points, but as I just said, I wasn't comparing him, just valuing him highly.
 
Davis has problems converting chances. He is not an CDM and he is not an attacking flair player. Ive seen him link up very well with mane mane times. But for him to play his part our front 3 must be firing on all cylinders. Gaston in the middle would offer more flair, but only if he is consistent. And he lacks that 'general' that Davis has. For Gaston to shine we need our back 6 to be on the money.
I don't know what to think about JWP. Clearly so much potential, couple of goals and he may be the best of the 3. As he grows stronger physically and mentally he may develop that grit and be a complete midfielder.
 
Personally, I'd love it if Gaston could turn all that potential he had that made Saints take him on. I still like the fact that Lawrenson said he wouldn't be going to Southampton and that Lineker said that Ramirez's transfer to Saints was his favourite of that transfer window.
Sadly, I don't think his game does suit the PL but I do remember that Villa game when he was indeed superb (as someone mentioned earlier). However, if nobody comes in for him and he gets to be part of the squad again I won't be unhappy. It maybe unrealistic but I'd still like him to succeed here.
 
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Les Reed sounded quite upbeat about Gaston. It would be great to get one decent season from him. I doubt we would get an offer for him which he would accept as the wages would be so much worse than now. If he shows his undoubted quality then an extension could be considered or maybe he moves in January. It is frustrating but I don't think his failure to deliver has been due to the wrong attitude. If anyone can get him firing on all cylinders then Ron can.
 
I don't think Gaston has the wrong attitude...he was just in the wrong team. In our promotion years, you had to be a bust a gut, enthusiastic type of player. Hull was always going to be even worse for him (even if he stayed fit). May be a bit sweeping, but he is a continental type of player. I would love him to turn it round for us and if he does I will regard Ron as some kind of footballing guru...but does Ron and his team have time to spend specifically developing one player. I love Gaston, but have no great hopes. Hope he can prove me wrong.
 
- Doing The Lambert Walk said:
Have it on good authority that he is in talks with Middlesbrough today.
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Good, although I think Serie A would suit him better. Must be settled in the UK or the money is that much better. The cost of living in Italy is rather high, compared to the UK too, so any high-flying life style would be squeezed a bit. If I was him though I'd be looking to get back to a competition where the playing style suits me. If anything, Boro will be even more workman-like in their approach. Perhaps he's just not getting the decent offers.
 
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