Garry Monk...

[ivoralljack]

Monk has had to operate under the real threat of relegation. There's plenty of pressure there.

According to many on this board, so did Michael Laudrup.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

Monk has had to operate under the real threat of relegation. There's plenty of pressure there.

Pressure is part of the job, whether you're at the top fighting to win the league, or at the bottom fighting to stay in it. Having resources available and time to work with those resources for a whole week is a completely different challenge and level of complexity than working with limited resources and a work week punctuated by travel and recovery.

 

[Libertyswan]

Bit of a leap there Libertarian, and, imho, condescending and incorrect.

The bile and hate apparent here appears to be aimed at Monk and or the board. Others are responding to the unsubstantiated abuse aimed at them and therefor our club.

No one can say anything good about the board, Monk, our survival, next season, without a splatter ball of abuse and bile from a chosen few, who do appear to be in the Laudrup camp.

I have asked for facts, even deductive reasoning, but all that emanates is more bile and abuse.

Currently no one can congratulate Monk for successfully fulfilling his remit of keeping us up, without receiving abuse.

No one can congratulate the players for keeping us up without an in depth attack on Monk for not playing Pazuello, Canas, Michu, or the board being blamed for Ki playing for Sunderland.

They played no part in our survival, so why bring them up. Pozuallo, initially promising but ultimately disappointing, Canas, initially promising but ultimately lightweight and fourth in a list including Britton, Shelvey, De Guzman. Michu, absent, petulant, pointless all season, Ki, bench at best, so what is the point being made regarding them. That Monk picked the best team to get us through an incredibly stressful and difficult time, that's what I think.

Instead of gloating over Cardiffs demise, instead of debating about summer signings, instead of being happy to be where we are, instead of looking forward to next season, our 4th in the best league in the world by the way, some appear to prefer to forget and paint is a bleak, Russian-esque landscape of impending failure and depression.

Some, it would seem, don't want any of us to feel good about our club. I do, next season Prem football again and I feel good about that.

What I think about Laudrup is this..........nothing, same about Martinez, same about Rodgers. Once they were here, now they're gone. We moved on before and its time to move on now and definitely time to look forward to our continued odyssey in the premiership, I am, I happy.

Well said, I'm happy too.

 

[Norway-jack]

And while your doing all that and having senior players undermine you it adds to the pressure also...

 

[LIBERTARIAN]

So,to summarise,since many feel that Monk is a vast improvement on Laudrup,next season should be a bumper one.

Monk should be able to at least emulate the achievements of Laudrup,i.e.,top ten finish, and the securing of a major Cup.

The following season he can then take us into Europe and the latter stages of a European tournament.

Anything LESS than the above and the knives will be out.

P.S. He will also need to bring in a bargain a la Michu.

 

[Jack Uzi]

So,to summarise,since many feel that Monk is a vast improvement on Laudrup,next season should be a bumper one.

Monk should be able to at least emulate the achievements of Laudrup,i.e.,top ten finish, and the securing of a major Cup.

The following season he can then take us into Europe and the latter stages of a European tournament.

Anything LESS than the above and the knives will be out.

P.S. He will also need to bring in a bargain a la Michu.

I don't think many feel that Monk is a vast improvement on last season Laudrup. We may well never have a season that good again.

 

[ValleyGraduate12]

So,to summarise,since many feel that Monk is a vast improvement on Laudrup,next season should be a bumper one.

Monk should be able to at least emulate the achievements of Laudrup,i.e.,top ten finish, and the securing of a major Cup.

The following season he can then take us into Europe and the latter stages of a European tournament.

Anything LESS than the above and the knives will be out.

P.S. He will also need to bring in a bargain a la Michu.

Monk has been an improvement on this seasons Laudrup, but nowhere near as good as the Laudrup pre COC final.

P.S. Let's hope we don't go for someone of Aspas quality in the summer

 

[Pete from Crete]

All these stats re . ML and GM to prove who is /was the better manager mean nothing simply because ML was not sacked because of results.

 

[aswan_dam]

I had purposely used all games, as both managers had different priorities, ML focused on cup, GM focused on league, so league alone will I assume fair better for Monk than ML. But here it is anyway.

Monk
W: 4 D: 3 L: 5
W: 33.3% D: 25% L: 41.7%

ML
W: 8 D: 9 L: 18
W: 22.8% D: 25.7% L: 51.4%

Which as I expected would show as Monk being the better of the two in terms of league.

Which I guess is why I have always tried pointing out when making my point of view in the past, is also the calibre of teams played in that time, ML having to play a lot more against top 7 clubs than Monk has done 15 of ML's 35 games were against top 7 teams (42.8%. Compared to Monks 4/12. (33.3%)

I suppose a fairer reflection too would be this season alone for ML. Again, managerial preferences would not be accounted for.

ML
W: 6 D: 6 L: 12
W: 25% D: 25% L: 50%

Which again, shows Monk as the better of the two, but again, Monk plays 4 of 12 against top 7 clubs (33.3%), ML had played 10 of 24 games against top 7 (41.6%) which will again, distort the results. Just as Monk playing 6 (50%) against bottom half, compared to ML's 11 (45.8%)

I as you guys know am part of the "why the **** did we sack ML group", which is why I bring up the case of differing opposition as being a factor that many seem to ignore, such as his run in Dec and Jan being so tough, 7 of the 11 premier league games in that time were against top 7 teams. Which goes a long way to explaining why he only won 2 of those 11 games. Picking up just 9 points. Not to mention the injuries we had during those 2 months, which I know some like to forget about, but they were tough times for us. And I do feel bad for the bloke, yes there may have been issues behind closed doors, but I don't believe the results side of it was ever a problem for us. After all, playing 41.6% of his 24 games against top 7 sides, he was still managing a point per game, even with focusing on Europe. So was he really as bad as people make out, for me, no chance in hell. For me personally, he was doing his job on the pitch just fine. People were going on about the training being a problem, but didn't Ash even come out afterwards saying something about how we couldn't get a decent training plan going with Europe? (am sure someone did, or along those lines anyway). I mean he wasn't even backed in the January window, there is noway that Lita and Emnes were ML choices.

And a way to try and prove that, is by lookign at his results per group in the league

Top 7 - 10 games - 1 point = 0.1 points per game
8-10 - 3 games - 4 points = 1.33 points per game
11-17 - 7 games - 13 points = 1.86 points per game
Bottom 3 - 4 games - 6 points = 1.5 points per game

When you look at Monks ratio over them groups

Top 7 - 4 games - 1 point = 0.25 points per game
8-10 - 2 games - 4 points = 2 points per game
11-17 - 4 games - 4 points = 1 point per game
Bottom 3 - 2 games - 6 points = 3 points per game

So if you were to use GM's raio, with ML's games you would see this
Top 7 - 10 games @ 0.25 per game = 2.5 points
8-10 - 3 games @ 2 per game = 6 points
11-17 - 7 games @ 1 per game = 7 points
Bottom 3 - 4 games @ 3 per game = 12 points

That would give Monk 27.5

So is Monks focus on League, and not on cup, worth the 3.5 points? Or that ML had the horrid run of injuries and matches throughout January? For me there really is very little difference between the two. Which is why I cannot fathom Dai's approach of hate ML, yet adore GM, when they are really no different results wise.

Do you work for the Office of National Statistics?? If not, apply now....

 

[ValleyGraduate12]

Do you work for the Office of National Statistics?? If not, apply now....

Swans loves his stats, that's why I asked for them

 

[swanseaandproud]

So,to summarise,since many feel that Monk is a vast improvement on Laudrup,next season should be a bumper one.

Monk should be able to at least emulate the achievements of Laudrup,i.e.,top ten finish, and the securing of a major Cup.

The following season he can then take us into Europe and the latter stages of a European tournament.

Anything LESS than the above and the knives will be out.

P.S. He will also need to bring in a bargain a la Michu.

Its not going to take much to better laudrup is it Monk has already done that in a short time ....But as i have said laudrup could not or would not conform to swansea's way of doing things and that was part of his contract. Anyone who attended matches could see in the end that we were a shambles and playing the game that was making the players unhappy. He had to go to save the club and maybe monk wont be a success but at least he has done a good job so far in bringing the club back to a happy medium and he has got the results needed to stay up. I can only go on what i see and i cant fault monk for his outstanding efforts and i can see fully well why he has the backing of the players to give it a go next season. If he has a bad start then like any manager he will be sacked and he knows that fully well and it has not put him off. he wants a go and for what he has achieved not just recently but over a decade then i don't have any argument with him getting the job.

 

[LIBERTARIAN]

Monk has been an improvement on this seasons Laudrup, but nowhere near as good as the Laudrup pre COC final.

P.S. Let's hope we don't go for someone of Aspas quality in the summer

I don't know about you,Valley,but this Laudrup/Monk nonsense is doing my head in.

Where do people get the time to plow through all the records and produce reams of pointless facts and figures? And they expect us to read and make some sense of it all.

The BOTTOM LINE is, that despite the recent upheavals and shenanigans,we are all still Swansea City supporters,following them through thick and thin,good times and bad.

That won't change,regardless of who is the Manager.

P.S. Any truth to the rumour that Monk is planning on re-signing Sheckter for next season.

 

[LIBERTARIAN]

Its not going to take much to better laudrup is it Monk has already done that in a short time ....But as i have said laudrup could not or would not conform to swansea's way of doing things and that was part of his contract. Anyone who attended matches could see in the end that we were a shambles and playing the game that was making the players unhappy. He had to go to save the club and maybe monk wont be a success but at least he has done a good job so far in bringing the club back to a happy medium and he has got the results needed to stay up. I can only go on what i see and i cant fault monk for his outstanding efforts and i can see fully well why he has the backing of the players to give it a go next season. If he has a bad start then like any manager he will be sacked and he knows that fully well and it has not put him off. he wants a go and for what he has achieved not just recently but over a decade then i don't have any argument with him getting the job.

"It's not going to take much to better Laudrup,is it"?

Well,let Monk get a top ten slot,plus win a major trophy,etc.,oh,and get some sort of World wide status comparable to Laudrup's.Then come back and tell us all about it.

The very name Michael Laudrup is known throughout The World,not only in football circles. Garry Monk has no such status.

"Monk has already done that in a short time". Done what exactly? Which Cup has he won? Are The Swans' in the top ten? How far in Europe has Monk taken the Club?

Since there is no way of knowing whether the team would have been relegated had Laudrup not been sacked,Monk has achieved nothing in comparison to him.

Now,in two years time a comparison can be made,until then all attempts to inflate Monk's performance as manager are rather pointless.

 

[swanseaandproud]

your so blinkered liber, you are totally ignoring nearly a season and a half of his reign...anyway like i say you decide it don't matter

 

[Terror ball]

Its not going to take much to better laudrup is it Monk has already done that in a short time ....

You see, it's alright to have a grin at Swanselona's love of statistics but the alternative is above.
Not very clever is it?
If people are incapable of a debate using rational arguments they render words meaningless.

My father always taught me "you can't win an argument with a cretin" but here goes. ..

DaiSwan (and anyone who agrees with him)
By what measure has Monk achieved more than Laudrup?

Laudrup finished higher.
With more points.
Masterminded this club's first ever major trophy (outfoxing Rodgers and Benitez tactically along the way).
Improved our squad immeasurablely...purchasing Michu and Bony who would rake in a minimum £40m for the pair if we sold tomorrow.
Steered us through to the knockout stages of the Europa.
and
Got us further in the FA cup than we've been for years.

What has Monk done as manager?

 

[Terror ball]

Beat me to it Lib

 

[LIBERTARIAN]

your so blinkered liber, you are totally ignoring nearly a season and a half of his reign...anyway like i say you decide it don't matter

I am probably the least blinkered when it come to this Monk/Laudrup scenario. I have no axe to grind either way.
You,however,have a very large axe and you've been honing it non-stop for months now and the target is Laudrup.
You constantly refer to "facts" yet you conveniently ignore the facts that I have outlined above.
How very convenient and very typical of your debating style.
Actually,you don't have a debating style,since it is you who wears the blinkers.

 

[LIBERTARIAN]

Beat me to it Lib

"You can't win an argument with a cretin". Lovely,and ever so true.

 

[LIBERTARIAN]

You see, it's alright to have a grin at Swanselona's love of statistics but the alternative is above.
Not very clever is it?
If people are incapable of a debate using rational arguments they render words meaningless.

My father always taught me "you can't win an argument with a cretin" but here goes. ..

DaiSwan (and anyone who agrees with him)
By what measure has Monk achieved more than Laudrup?

Laudrup finished higher.
With more points.
Masterminded this club's first ever major trophy (outfoxing Rodgers and Benitez tactically along the way).
Improved our squad immeasurablely...purchasing Michu and Bony who would rake in a minimum £40m for the pair if we sold tomorrow.
Steered us through to the knockout stages of the Europa.
and
Got us further in the FA cup than we've been for years.

What has Monk done as manager?

As you've clearly indicated Terror,Laudrup was just a waste of space as a Manager,and Dai is right,and that's a FACT!!!

 

[Bob the slob]

first game we played the Swansea way and won. we kept on playing that way right up to the cup final and won.....What went wrong after that ?????? did we stop playing all of a sudden or could it be that laudrup changed our playing style and training routine and every other part of the swansea philosophy that the players were use too maybe..........you decide and see if you can come up with a really good enough reason why we ended the season with the worst form in the premiership and have been poor this season until he was sacked ??? But wait a minute law and behold we put monk In charge and he begins to reverse laudrups ways back to the swans way and WOW what a transformation in the way we were playing again. we went from 2 points off relegation to reaching safety with two games to spare and our first back to back win all season......Do you think that its a miracle or a coincidence or maybe laudrup was wrong...again you decide..

A point that is being missed is that Michael Laudrup could see the importance of cups as a way of getting to Europe.
Now I understand many supporters feel Europe was distracting, dangerous even; but the fact is quality players need an incentive to come to play for Swansea. For us there is no greater honour, for them its a poor Premier League team where pay is comparatively low, with no chance of playing at the highest level and not really wanting to win anything (if you win a cup you play in Europe ergo don't want to win cups).
I am convinced we'd have stayed up with Laudrup and even been safe earlier and we might, might have been looking forward to signing better players.